Petroleum Distillates

[The Dodge]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

So far, no one has asked the age of the tires that are "cracking"?? how old are they? Driven daily? garaged or not?

6 months on both vehicle tires, both vehicles driven daily, her car is garaged and my truck is outside in the elements. We live in Olympia, WA.

[Blueline]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

Then the only 3 I could find that were Petroleum Distillate free was 303 Aerospace Protectant, DuPont ****** Tire Shine and Griot's Vinyl & Rubber Dressing.

Just a FYI, the "browning" y'all are talking about is a natural release of a chemical that is in the tire to protect the tire from the ozone's. It is called "blooming".

I used Megs Endurance and it made my Micheline's turn brown or bloom. Maybe just a coincidence, I don't know. Never really liking shiny tires anyway, I went to 303 and that stuff is great. No shine, no blooming, just the nice carbon black of a brand new tire. Tires are four years old and not a crack...look new.

[joaks]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

Blueline: what kind of Endurance did you use? Supposedly the gel and spray (non-aerosol) are water based and should have minimal effect on bloom.

We just got new sumo's and yoko's and I want them to last. I just emailed sumo for recommendations and am trying to email yokohama right now (if only the page would work)...

[BlackScreaminMachine]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

Ive done two Honda Accords that had the same cracking around the wall .... one customer a friend took his car back to Discount Tire and received 80% pro rate discount on a new set ... apparently this is a known problem of Michelins

Which generally is a clear indication of a bad batch and they are trying to not to pay on claims if they do not need to. IF a manufacture is throwing this garbage at you then they are trying to BS you into no using the warrentee.

I'd lie and said that you were using one of the approved products. If they want to test and spend more money then it cost for the tires then it's their own stupidity.

I would wash the tires clean, use some bleech wite and re wash and then ship them and find out what they will do for you.

[joaks]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

I did find this on a sumo datasheet:
DO NOT APPLY SIDEWALL DRESSING OR
HARSH CHEMICAL CLEANERS

:-(

[the other pc]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

I wish I could remember who it was that answered this question some time ago and hope he'll see this and give us his knowledge....

It was Mike Phillips.

Petroleum Distillates in Rubber & Vinyl Protectants

No petroleum tire protectant

[joaks]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

Thanks for the links, PC!!

I'm surprised to read of antiozonants in meg's tire products. I wonder if this applies to the Endurance line (I don't think it says anything on the label).

[Poki]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

It was Mike Phillips.

Petroleum Distillates in Rubber & Vinyl Protectants

No petroleum tire protectant

Thanks, that's the one I was trying to recall......

[The Dodge]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

Okay, Michelin Tire's finally called me back and the rep/tech I spoke with told me that, "Michelin does not approve any tire dressing other than there own and that if there dressing is not available, you must use dressings that are, Rubber Based(?), Water Based and do not contain Petroleum or Silicone." I think I am more confused now. . . . . . . .so, I'm going to head over to Discount Tires(10 minutes away) and see if they can tell me whether my cracking is caused from Tire Dressings or whether it is in fact a defect in Michelin's tire's which I hope Michelin will stand behind there product.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

OK, let's see if we can delve into this a bit.

Let me start by saying that the last time I purchased new tires, the tire dealer (a large national chain, by the way) applied a tire dressing before handing my keys back to me. And I had to wipe off a rather heavy excess of product before driving off. Just sayin'.

Anyway, after just sitting down with our own VP of R&D (who, incidentally, has spoken directly with tire engineers and chemists about this very topic), here's what we can share with you.

As most of you know, tire companies build their tires with anti-ozonants build into them. These components are designed to leach to the surface when the tire is under load and in motion in order to protect the rubber from the ravages of ozone exposure. It's ozone that is the main threat to tires, not UV. Ozone levels can vary around the world, but it tends to be greater in and around large industrial cities and at higher elevations. So it looks like Los Angeles and Denver have more in common than they thought! As these anti-ozonants come to the surface and are exposed to oxygen, they turn brown; and this browning of the sidewalls is known as "blooming". Once out and on the surface, they've served their useful purpose and aren't really doing anything any longer - except maybe making the sidewall look less pretty than we'd like. It's a naturally occurring situation ("naturally occurring" as in "it's designed into the tire") and not caused by anything you've applied to the tire. Each tire company has their own recipe not only for the tires but the overall anti-ozonant blend as well. Yes, certain key ingredients are common to most, but it's how their combined, in what ratios, etc that will determine the level of blooming on a given tire.

I can tell you, from personal experience, that when we had 4 different cars at home, each with a different brand of tire, all four cars got the same treatment. That means the same cleaner used on the side walls, and the same dressings used on them as well. None exhibited any cracking that I ever noticed, but one brand of tire showed a noticeably higher level of blooming; ie, those darn sidewalls were always brown. How does this happen when four different brands all got the same cleaning and dressing? It's the tire. That's not good, bad or otherwise, it just is. That's the way the tire was designed. The tires that showed this high level of blooming were Michelins. The other brands were Falken, BF Goodrich and Continental, just for the record. In our VP of R&D's experience, Michelin and Pirelli tires seem to exhibit this to a higher degree than most. Again, that's not good, bad or otherwise, it just is. Both companies make some of the finest tires you can put under your car, no question about it. It's how they construct the tires and what they have in their anti-ozonants that creates this.

Now, fine cracking of the side wall of a tire is due to ozone attacking the side wall. It's quite common for a tire to be taken off a car and the same cracking to be found on the inboard sidewall, the one that never gets any dressing at all. Heck, it never really gets any cleaning either.

So, where do petroleum distillates come into play? Petroleum distillates (let's call them PD's) range from incredibly powerful solvents all the way down to FDA approved lubricants used in food processing plants. That's a pretty broad range. Some petroleum solvents are used in cleaning solutions that will strip that brown off the side of a tire in no time. Some of those might be a bit more harsh than what the tire really wants, or likes. Some might bet a bit deeper into the sidewall and strip out the anti-ozonants that are supposed to be protecting that outer reach of the side wall. Aromatic hydrocarbons, as they're called, are the type of PD's you don't want hanging around your tires as they are very potent. That's not a good thing at all. Meguiar's essentially has two tire dressings with PD's; Hot Shine and Endurance aerosol sprays. But here's the kicker with those - the PD's are basically the stuff that makes an aerosol an aerosol. They're the propellant that moves the ingredients out of the can and onto your tire. They are literally gone in a matter of seconds; they don't stick around on the side wall of the tire.

But what of silicones? Again, silicones encompass a huge variety of materials. We all know that silicones are a bad thing to have in a body shop because any little bit of it getting onto a prepped panel just before paint is sprayed will cause the paint to form fisheyes, a situation where the paint is literally pushed away from the bit of silicone on the surface. But body shops will sometimes use a product called fisheye reducer, which actually contains a type of silicone! Silicone in and of itself, especially in the context of car care products, is an inert ingredient, meaning it doesn't react with anything. Silicones are used to enhance or alter the characteristic of other ingredients - they can make application and/or removal of a product easier; they can help it spread out more readily; they can add gloss. When applied to the sidewall of a tire, they actually prevent - at least to some degree - the ability of ozone to penetrate to the rubber. That means the silicone can actually help protect the tire. Admittedly, this is stretching the point a bit because you're not putting that much product on anyway. Let's face it, we all know that heavy application of a tire dressing is a sure fired way to cause sling, and nobody likes that.

OK, so we've got two aerosol dressings that have a small amount of PD's used as propellants just to get the stuff out of the can. All the rest are water based - gels and trigger sprays like Endurance, M40, Hyper Dressing, Natural & Supreme Shine, etc. All do contain some level of silicone, in varying degrees, but none are harmful to the sidewall of the tire.

To our original poster here, The Dodge, have you looked at the back side of the tires to see if the cracking is there too? Do you have another vehicle with a different brand of tire that you treat the same way but does not have any cracking? Lastly, the area of the tire you describe, close to the rim, is also an area of the tire where there is less flex and movement, and therefore possibly less anti-ozonants being leached to the surface to protect against ozone.

We have every confidence that none of our tire shine products, whether trigger spray, gel or aerosol, will cause any sort of damage to your tires in any way. We have always stood behind every product we make, 100%. That means if you don't like the way it works, we'll give you your money back. It also means that if it damages a surface it's designed to be used on (when used according to directions, of course), we'll take care of you there too. It is extremely rare that we end up buying new parts or contributing to the cost of repairs - not because we fight those claims tooth and nail, but simply because our products aren't causing this sort of damage. That's true of paint care products, cleaners, vinyl dressings, and tire shine products.

[The Dodge]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

@ Michael Stoops, Thanks so much for helping me understand this thing about PD's. I have not checked the inside wall of my tires to see if it is cracking there or not(i will do that today). The only other tires I have are 2 Pirelli tire's that I just took off my truck and they were about 8 years old(so there was definitely some cracking). Again, thanks to all the information y'all supplied me with. I will continue to use Meguiar's products for every part of my vehicle. . . . .keep it up Meguiar's!! (also, i'm gonna order me some M40 today and give it a try. . . .now that i know its out there and Meguiar's makes it . . .oh yeah baby!!)

[joaks]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

Michael,
Can you comment as to if the Endurance products (or any of the others) have anti-ozone ingredients?

I actually posted anti-ozone products on the "new product suggestion" section several weeks ago with the belief they were not currently part of the formulations but the link from Mike ******* says they are....

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

Michael,
Can you comment as to if the Endurance products (or any of the others) have anti-ozone ingredients?

I actually posted anti-ozone products on the "new product suggestion" section several weeks ago with the belief they were not currently part of the formulations but the link from Mike ******* says they are....

Honestly, I'd have to double check with our head chemist on this but from our discussion yesterday he flat out mentioned that even just the silicones we use act as a very effective ozone block. That may well be what Mike P was talking about in that older post. Now if you're asking whether or not anything we use as an ozone blocker is the same as what's actually used in the tires, I highly doubt it.

[joaks]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

Honestly, I'd have to double check with our head chemist on this but from our discussion yesterday he flat out mentioned that even just the silicones we use act as a very effective ozone block. That may well be what Mike P was talking about in that older post. Now if you're asking whether or not anything we use as an ozone blocker is the same as what's actually used in the tires, I highly doubt it.

Thanks. Let me know if you ever hear specifically, but I am content with the silicones. Actually, maybe that's a new product idea! Use the SAME stuff that is in the tires! You can call it "tire brown"! I can smell the royalties already

[roushstage2]

Re: Petroleum Distillates

So far, no one has asked the age of the tires that are "cracking"?? how old are they? Driven daily? garaged or not?

I would go farther than this and ask when were the tires made? People do get "new" tires that have been sitting around for a few years.