DA micro fiber system micro marring

[Sager09]

I am very pleased with the MF system and have been using it lots the only issue I'm having is micro marring when the vehicle is in direct sunlight. My customers are very happy with the vehicles but I noticed it on a black chev avalance It was fairly noticeable and I did seesome on the red Ferrari I did. I used m83-m80-m09 with the yellow pad when I found them after the two MF stages were done with no noticeable changes. I don't want to pull the big dog back out it's a back breaker for any length of time. I really like the DA size and usability any ideas are welcome thanks.

[wifpd4]

Re: DA micro fiber system micro marring

It's too early for me to have mastered the DA MF system, well mastered any of them for that matter, but I did a black, 2011 Chevy pickup while MOL was off-line. I micro-marred it like crazy. M301 and or the technique I was using did not clear them up to my standards. So I grabbed a yellow pad and M205 and was fairly aggressive with it. Then I followed that up with M301 and the MF finishing pad. I wanted to eek out the most shine and blackness possible and also get that coat of wax M301 offers. Before going off-line Mr. Stoops indicated was going to work on a car this past weekend and explain the techniques he used. So watch for that. I wonder if more delicate paint doesn't micro-marr more than harder less delicate paint?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: DA micro fiber system micro marring

More delicate paint will definitely haze and micro mar more so than a harder paint will. We've seen cases, and many have reported cases, where the paint looked darn near perfect following D300 on the cutting disc. But we've also seen situations where D300/cutting disc leaves a lot of marring - sometimes that marring is easily taken care of with D301/finishing disc and sometimes it isn't. We've always talked about how different paints will react differently to the same input, and that certainly holds true with the DA Microfiber System.

It is important to keep in mind that this system is quite aggressive and was designed specifically for volume reconditioning facilities. We see a lot of higher end detailers using D300/cutting disc for initial cut and then following with M205/W9207 (or even W8207) and then waxing with their go to wax/sealant. We actually support this process in cases where optimum finish is the main goal, not just speed and time conservation as you would find in a volume reconditioning facility.

David had mentioned that I was going to revisit a pair of vehicles I last worked on back in September. I did so on Saturday but discovered my camera battery was still plugged into the charger in my home office, so no pix. But I can share this with you: The Mercedes in question, a 2007 SL 55 AMG in non-metallic black, was noticeably swirled again 10 months later. The paint on this car, as it turns out, is very delicate and easy to mar. So much for the "Mercedes has rock hard paint" mind set that seems to be so popular on detailing forums! This was very easy to haze, very prone to holograms when rotary buffing, etc. More time was spent experimenting with this car this time around, partly due to discussions that had arisen here and elsewhere. I played around a bit, to be honest, and tried a bunch of different things. For example, having corrected the owner's Superformance Cobra first that morning, I decided to try on the AMG what worked so beautifully on the Cobra. That combo was M205/W8207/rotary at 1400 rpm. The Cobra responded beautifully to this process, leaving the paint very clear and glossy. The paint on that car loves a rotary with some speed behind it - M205/W8207 on a DA at speed 5 did very little to make the paint really pretty, nor did it remove all the defects. So rotary it was, followed by D301/W9207 foam finishing pad and then NXT Tech Wax 2.0/W9207 foam finishing.

And here's where it got really interesting: The same rotary process on the AMG turned the trunk into hologram city. It removed the swirls and other defects pretty well, but the holograms were incredible! The Cobra did not respond like this at all! So that was set aside and the next test was done; M205/W8207/DA. Not much, really, as far as defect removal, although the paint did look nice and glossy. But glossy, light swirls was not the goal here, so experimentation continued. M66/W8207/DA gave some decent defect removal, but a lot of micro marring and hazing. D151, same thing. Just as I was about to give M105/W8207/DA a go, I thought back to my last experience on this car with D300/microfiber cutting disc; it removed defects with little effort, but left a lot of haze. The haze cleared up very nicely with D301/finishing disc but I wanted to see if there was a better way to go about this on this particular car. So I stuck a fresh W8207 foam polishing pad onto the G110v2 and primed it with D300. Yowza! This was like a gift from the detailing gods! With a primed pad, just three pea sized drops of D300 would fully correct a 2'x 2' area in very short order. Like, overlapping passes side to side, then up and down. Stop. Wipe off. IPA wipedown. Good golly! So I did another spot. 3 drops. 2' x 2' area (full of rotary holograms, by the way). Overlap side to side, then overlap up and down. Stop. Wipe off. Oh, and zero dust. Score!!!

That car was done in no time, with little effort, and no marring. A quick follow with D301/W9207 foam to refine a bit, then a coat of NXT and the owner was thrilled. In all honesty, this was the first time I'd used D300 with foam, and in this case it was just incredible. But the really, really important thing to keep in mind here is that this product combo worked great on this car. This is not a panacea for all finishes. Nothing is. In the initial write up I did on the DA Microfiber Correction System I mentioned this AMG, but I also mentioned my niece's Toyota Corolla. The funny thing is, the paint on that little Toyota looked fantastic with just D300/cutting disc. In fact, it looked so superior to the AMG following that first step that it was almost unreal. But again, that's not an indicator of which car has "better" paint, just how differently these two paint systems respond to the same input. That's why we do test spots. That's why we have so many different products to choose from. That's why we experiment a bit and try different things. You never know what's going to surprise you - in a good way or a bad way. (It must be said here, though, that I never expected Ultimate Quik Wax to make the chrome wheels on the AMG look soooooo much better, but that's a different discussion)

So, the moral of the story is this: if you're getting haze or marring in what should be your finishing process, you need to look at some different options. If you're getting really severe hazing in your cutting process, make sure that haze comes out with your finishing process, or look at a less aggressive (or just better "fitting") product for that application. It's really not unlike using M105/wool pad/rotary at 1800 rpm to remove sanding marks - you expect a less than perfect finish, which is why you follow with M205 and a foam pad. If you don't get a "perfect" finish with a DA and either foam or microfiber pads during your cutting step, that isn't such a big deal. But if you're still getting it with your finishing step, you could have paint that's very sensitive. We've had a few chances to work on a 2011 Prius in non-metallic black, and that paint is hyper sensitive. Our consumer grade clay hazes it very badly. Ultimate Compound hazes it quite a bit. M105 is way overly aggressive on it. The DA Microfiber System is out of the question. But ColorX removes swirls and leaves a very nice finish. So all the "cool stuff" gets left on the shelf for that car, which seems to disappoint the owner for some odd reason. But the end result is what you're after, so you use what works best to get you there, preferably with the least amount of work along the way, and with the least aggression needed.

[greg0303]

Re: DA micro fiber system micro marring

Great write-up, Mike.

[Mark McGuire]

Re: DA micro fiber system micro marring

Great write-up Mike and also shows why a test spot is so important.

[MirandaAutoSpa]

Re: DA micro fiber system micro marring

Thanks Mike, I love that right up. It helps us to understand that all clear coats are not equal. I like getting new ideas on how to mix and match compound, polishes and pads to achieve the best results. I didn't think off using the new D300/301 compound and wax on the Soft Buff 2.0 polish and finishing pads. I didn't know that the Prius clear was so soft. I have a black Prius that I will be polishing because the dealer hologramed it up, and the OWNER noticed! So ColorX huh? Very cool!!

[Sager09]

Re: DA micro fiber system micro marring

Thanks mike! When I did the test spots they looked great but it was the direct sun light and the right angle that made the marring visible. I was able to get the avalanche again and worked a few combos with it. the 300 with the megs yellow pad did wonders! I primed the pad then only 2 small dots of product on the pad. I set the speed to 5 on the porter and with only light to medium pressure 2-4 passes all was right again! Thanks again for all the great work and info, it made my life a lot easier today. Thanks again!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: DA micro fiber system micro marring

Thanks Mike, I love that right up. It helps us to understand that all clear coats are not equal. I like getting new ideas on how to mix and match compound, polishes and pads to achieve the best results. I didn't think off using the new D300/301 compound and wax on the Soft Buff 2.0 polish and finishing pads. I didn't know that the Prius clear was so soft. I have a black Prius that I will be polishing because the dealer hologramed it up, and the OWNER noticed! So ColorX huh? Very cool!!

If the holograms are really bad you may need something more aggressive than ColorX to get rid of them, even if that means leaving a less than perfect finish. If so, do it but then follow up with a light cleaner like ColorX to refine that finish before laying down something like NXT or other.

Thanks mike! When I did the test spots they looked great but it was the direct sun light and the right angle that made the marring visible. I was able to get the avalanche again and worked a few combos with it. the 300 with the megs yellow pad did wonders! I primed the pad then only 2 small dots of product on the pad. I set the speed to 5 on the porter and with only light to medium pressure 2-4 passes all was right again! Thanks again for all the great work and info, it made my life a lot easier today. Thanks again!

Happy to help, and thanks for the feedback on that combo having worked for you as well. It was the only time I had tried it so I couldn't say with any certainty how much of a fluke it might have been.