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Disappointed... In need of insight....

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  • Disappointed... In need of insight....

    Hey guys...

    Well I bought a GG6 and the Meguiars backing plates for their 7inch and 4inch pads. I also bought Meguairs yellow and black soft buff 2.0 pads. After lurking on here for almost month, it seemed like UC, UP, and any LSP would bring amazing results. I was mostly focused on the swirls because thats the only issue my paint had. I already had good depth and reflections, I just wanted the swirls to gone when someone looked up close... after hours of UC and UP, I just wasn't satisfied with what I was getting. I've watched countless videos and read countless articles on all of the techniques using a D/A, prepping the surface, etc... I'm applying what I know the best I can and I'm just beginning to feel careless about removing swirls anymore. I just don't get it. I used to be king of the Drive Thru car wash. So really I am dealing with Car Wash swirls, which I wouldn't think would be that deep, but I guess they could put some deep scratches in paint?

    Heres what I was doing, truck was already washed.
    1. Clayed

    -----
    Problem:
    2. UC with yellow pad, on speed 4 and 5 (Tried varying speeds as I read in an article different speeds work better on different cars)
    -Prepped the pad like I read on an article on here
    -Cleaned the pad on the fly often, usually every other working of the product, sometimes after each "working".
    -I marked a black line on the pad as I found this really helped me as in the beginning I was using too much pressure, resulting in the pad not rotating.
    -Other then that, I tried both the 7inch pad and the 4 inch pads, it seems like the 4 inch gets the job done a little quicker... Here's the thing though, I worked the UC for around a minute, I worked small areas as recommended on here and other sites, used what I thought was a good pressure (not to the point where the pad stopped, but not to the point where the pad was barely touching), and used the "pattern" of moving the buffer over the paint. After 2 workings of UC, almost all of my swirls were still there, like the surface looked almost unchanged. Mind you this is after 2 workings. Is that normal?? I went over an area like 6 or 7 times and I still have a few fine scratches that look like they could be removed, but at this point I just wanna forget about it.
    -----

    3. UP did bring back the gloss as I had a pin stripe I taped off while using UC, and when I removed the tape you could see a noticeable difference in color under lighting.
    4. NXT 2.0, worked as it did by hand so that was fine as well.


    So all in all, like, I did 2 door panels and they came out alright after 6 or 7 workings of UC. In fact, they came out the best of any other panel I have done so far (hood & tailgate and 1 rear quarter panel). I am satisfied with my door panels actually, very satisfied as they are nearly scratch free except for a RIDS or two. The tailgate just sucked to say the least. I worked just one half of the tailgate (in small sections) around 10 times, with the 4 inch pad!! And I still have swirls and stuff. I don't have any pictures right now as I don't really feel like attempting to get my camera to pick them up as I have failed to do so before.

    If you read this all the way through, thank you very much...


    Any suggestions please? Maybe I need to step up to M105 or whatever the number is? Maybe my paint is super hard? (2002 Chevy Avalanche Victory Red)
    Always searching for the best.... Keep it country!
    ---------
    SkiDoo Snowmobiles!

  • #2
    Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

    You may need to step up to M105....but let me get to a computer before typing out all I want to suggest.
    Tedrow's Detailing
    845-642-1698
    Treat Yourself to that New Car Feeling

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

      Apparently you are doing things right. All I can suggest is that you take a small section like 2 x 2 ft area and work it with UC for about 5 minutes which to me would be 6 passes slowly. As I learned on your last pass do not apply lot of pressure. Originally I had same problems on black paint but with practice you can do it. What i finally did is purchased Microfiber Correction System (5 In) and results were amazing in 1/2 of the time. Maybe someone else can give you more pointers but one thing I can tell you DON"T GIVE UP!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

        Originally posted by Shawn T. View Post
        You may need to step up to M105....but let me get to a computer before typing out all I want to suggest.
        Ok, I'll be standing by.

        Originally posted by Mark58 View Post
        Apparently you are doing things right. All I can suggest is that you take a small section like 2 x 2 ft area and work it with UC for about 5 minutes which to me would be 6 passes slowly. As I learned on your last pass do not apply lot of pressure. Originally I had same problems on black paint but with practice you can do it. What i finally did is purchased Microfiber Correction System (5 In) and results were amazing in 1/2 of the time. Maybe someone else can give you more pointers but one thing I can tell you DON"T GIVE UP!
        Thanks for your input, maybe the MF Correction system would be worth a shot... If I remember correctly I thought it is quite a bit more aggressive... not sure if I want to go there yet.
        Always searching for the best.... Keep it country!
        ---------
        SkiDoo Snowmobiles!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

          Originally posted by ChevyNick View Post
          Ok, I'll be standing by.



          Thanks for your input, maybe the MF Correction system would be worth a shot... If I remember correctly I thought it is quite a bit more aggressive... not sure if I want to go there yet.
          Don't be afraid of it. Aggressive? Only if you work it to hard. I used it on My 2007 Caddy DTS BLACK and it worked wonders.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

            ChevyNick, till Shawn comes back I might suggest a bit more UC on your pad. Stopping the pad at speed 5 implies, to me at least, the pad is a little dry. At five you should really be able to bear down without stopping the pad. Having delicate paint could also be a problem, although again to me that seems unlikely on a Chevy truck. However I've only done a few Chevy trucks. And yes the tailgates present additional challenges. Let's see what Shawn says.

            "fishing for swirls in a sea of black"
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            David

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

              Alright. Sorry for the delay. Here we go....

              If you have to use UC 6 or 7 times before any success then it may be time to really step it up to M105 or speed 6 and heavy pressure.

              Let me explain. When I work UC on a neglected finish, I first prime the pad and then use about 2-4 pea sized drops on the pad. I use between speed 5 and speed 6 at times. Do not be afraid to jump up to speed 6 with the machine. It can handle it. Also, when on speed 6, do not be afraid to put some good pressure on the machine. You want to defintitely be able to slow down the spinning of the pad considerably but obviously not to the point where the pad stops rotating. However, you do want to be able to really slow down the machine. It should take considerable effort to slow down the spinning and apply the proper pressure to the machine.

              There are several more options. One of them is to buy a few W7207 cutting pads. These are not recommended to be used by DA but in your case, they may prove necessary to achieve your desired level of correction in a reasonable time frame. However, there is a slightly different technique you would use with the cutting pads. Do not run the machine past speed 5. This is due to the risk that the laminating backing of the cutting pad could disintegrate. The cutting pad, due to its coarseness, generates more heat due to friction than a polishing pad and all of this energy is transferred in the form of heat to the laminated backing which could prove fatal to the pad. However, running the pad at speed 5 should be fine. Also, give the pad a break between panels of 5-10 minutes so that they heat can dissipate. Using the cutting pad though (movement, pressure, work area, etc.) is all the same as using a W8207 polishing pad but expect a shorter working time due to the extra heat generated. But, you also have to remember that with the increased cut of the cutting pad, there may be hazing on the surface. But, since you are following up with UP anyway, this should not be a problem. Just remember to switch to a W8207 polishing pad and speed 4 when using UP.

              Another option is to switch to M105 and maintain the use of the polishing pads. Or switch to M105 and the cutting pads. Really your choice. Just know that with M105, you will have a much shorter work time and more dusting than UC. In all honesty, I do not enjoy using M105 because it can be a real hassle to use outdoors which is where I work since I'm a mobile detailer. That is why I stick to UC 95% of the time. M105 is my go-to product for headlights though as it really cuts through the oxidation easily and effectively. Similar to UC with a cutting pad, expect a short (relative to UC) working time with M105 and considerably more dusting than you would have with a polishing pad. Obviously, once again, follow up M105 with UP.

              Another option is to purchase the Microfiber Correction System. This system involves a different technique as the above two and may be the ticket to achieving the finish you want since your paint system sounds to be very hard (almost like a stereotypical Corvette). There is a video on YouTube and here on the forum about the proper use of the system. You can even use this system differently than its advertised. You can go ahead and use the D300 Microfiber Correction Compound followed by UP followed by NXT 2.0. This may provide you with better results than just using the D301 Finishing Wax after D300 Microfiber Correction Compound.

              In all honesty, any of the above options are good and should provide you with the results you are looking for. But, if I had to choose one and had the extra cash, I would spring for the Microfiber Correction System. It really is an amazing system and the easiest of the 3 options to use. Plus, it involves less variables in switching and manipulation suggested techniques thereby reducing the possibility for anything not working properly or optimally.

              Hope this helps! If you have any more questions, ask away!
              Tedrow's Detailing
              845-642-1698
              Treat Yourself to that New Car Feeling

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

                Originally posted by wifpd4 View Post
                ChevyNick, till Shawn comes back I might suggest a bit more UC on your pad. Stopping the pad at speed 5 implies, to me at least, the pad is a little dry. At five you should really be able to bear down without stopping the pad. Having delicate paint could also be a problem, although again to me that seems unlikely on a Chevy truck. However I've only done a few Chevy trucks. And yes the tailgates present additional challenges. Let's see what Shawn says.
                I will definitely double check how much UC I am putting on the pad.

                Originally posted by Shawn T. View Post
                Alright. Sorry for the delay. Here we go....

                *Insert lots of information*

                Hope this helps! If you have any more questions, ask away!
                Hey Shawn, thank you so much for your input. Like wifpd4 pointed out, I think that I am probably keeping the pad a little on the drier side. I may give it another go with UC and really make sure I lube the pad up well, and try speed six and see what happens. If this fails, I may just skip the M105 as you pointed out it is kind of a hassle to use. I'm not too sure that I would want to deal with that when I know there is another option you pointed out, the Microfiber Correction System. I briefly read up on this and have found that people really like it, and it gives similar results to a D/A that it would a Rotary.


                Here's the thing, is it going to be ok for me to use this system after I've already used multiple coats of UC? As far as my clear coat goes?


                Can I buy the pads individually? Would they work on the backing plate I use for Megs 7" Soft Buff 2.0 pads and also the 3inch backing plate for 4" Soft Buff 2.0 pads?


                As far as I researched, I didn't come across a 7 inch microfiber pad, so would it be possible I could do the whole truck with 4 inch pads? I find it much easier to use 4" pads than the 7" pads because of all the curves on the Avalanche, plus, remember, the bottom half the truck is plastic. So the 7" pads on the doors/fenders can get annoying sometimes. Or, if there is no 4", I have stumbled across 5", maybe that would be my best? I'm just a little confused at the backing plate/pad compatibility right now.


                Thanks again for your help!
                Last edited by ChevyNick; Oct 10, 2011, 10:09 AM. Reason: Easier on the eyes
                Always searching for the best.... Keep it country!
                ---------
                SkiDoo Snowmobiles!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

                  Nick, from the sounds of it we're guessing you could actually be using more pressure than you did. Marking the back side of the backing plate is a great idea to keep an eye on the rotation, but your descriptions sounds like you definitely had some room to go with more pressure and still maintain pad rotation. We'd suggest using enough pressure to just stop the pad rotation, then ease up until it's moving again. It won't be moving fast at all, but there will be some rotation. Then move the tool very slowly over the paint, covering no more than 2' x 2' for each section pass. Speed 5 is definitely called for here as well.

                  A couple of other observations based on questions/comments of yours:
                  • You mentioned that it looked like the 4" pads did more correction than the 7" pads, and that makes perfect sense as you're concentrating all the energy of the tool into a much smaller area.
                  • You asked "is it going to be ok for me to use this system after I've already used multiple coats of UC? As far as my clear coat goes?" and the answer is you'll be perfectly fine. Look at this way - if all you had were typical light to moderate swirls and you didn't get rid of them all, then no matter how many times you went over them you didn't remove enough paint to remove the swirls. Whether that's due to extremely hard paint or a technique that wasn't as effective as it might be, the bottom line is you didn't remove much paint at all.
                  Michael Stoops
                  Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

                  Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

                    Thats a good point as far as paint removal goes. I may look into the MF Correction System if I can't get the UC to work after a few changes in my technique. Thanks again guys.

                    By the way, my friend came over with his 05 Black Chevy Impala. I decided his car would be perfect for my new techniques his paint was pretty dirty/oxidized or something. I ran 2 passes of UC in multiple sections as well as 1 pass of UP in multiple sections and finished with a hand applied coating of Ultimate Paste Wax. He did some of the work himself, mind you he was a first time user with a D/A. With his rookie skill and my several hours of experience using a D/A, and a couple passes, we got this:

                    I imagine that it could be better if we spent more time on it. And yes, it's a Michigan car. That's what we call rock blast from good ol MI highways. Not much can fix that right?
                    Always searching for the best.... Keep it country!
                    ---------
                    SkiDoo Snowmobiles!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

                      A definite knock down of the swirls on that Impala, although it does appear that a follow up with a finishing polish might help to refine the finish a bit more. And you're correct about that "rock blast", unfortunately. We see that here in SoCal too as cars are exposed to all sorts of fine debris that basically sand blast the surface. The resulting tiny pits generally won't just buff out.
                      Michael Stoops
                      Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

                      Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

                        Yeah it still doesn't have that deep black look to it in that picture. And I have yet to see it in the daylight, by the time we started, the sun was setting. When you mention finishing polish, you're suggesting something else besides Ultimate Polish, which I used, I assume? Would you mind listing one or two? Would Color X be one? I've read quite a bit about that on here...
                        Always searching for the best.... Keep it country!
                        ---------
                        SkiDoo Snowmobiles!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

                          Color X is older product but your Ultimate Polish will do a great job. On your last 2 passes with UP do not use much force just let the machine do the work. I had similar problem with Cadillac Black paint it just didn't pop. Talked to mike and he explained that last passes should remove any hazing. He was right AGAIN,,LOL
                          You could also go with #205 but as far as I am concerned it's same as UP.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

                            ColorX is a cleaner wax so it's even milder than Ultimate Polish or M205. As Mark mentions, easing up on the final pass or two with any one of those can help to produce the finish you're after. Of course, you want to switch to a finishing pad as well rather than stay with a slightly more dense polishing pad.

                            Oh, and Mark, just so you know, UP and M205 may be related but they aren't really the same. UP has more polishing oils in it, M205 a bit more abrasives. While both can give an excellent finish, if you're a rotary user then give M205 a shot with a foam finishing pad at 900~1100 rpm for a really eye popping finish!
                            Michael Stoops
                            Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

                            Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Disappointed... In need of insight....

                              Originally posted by Michael Stoops View Post
                              ColorX is a cleaner wax so it's even milder than Ultimate Polish or M205. As Mark mentions, easing up on the final pass or two with any one of those can help to produce the finish you're after. Of course, you want to switch to a finishing pad as well rather than stay with a slightly more dense polishing pad.

                              Oh, and Mark, just so you know, UP and M205 may be related but they aren't really the same. UP has more polishing oils in it, M205 a bit more abrasives. While both can give an excellent finish, if you're a rotary user then give M205 a shot with a foam finishing pad at 900~1100 rpm for a really eye popping finish!
                              Thanks Mike, No rotary for me,,LOL,,Been there done that and ruined one Cadillac. I will stick with my GV110V2 and Microfiber system. Can't go wrong there.

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