Which Products Have Silicone?????

[cbourke]

hello all,

Just curious as to which Meguiars products have silicone in their ingredients? I hear that the Show Glaze #7 is the only one that doesn't..........true?

thanks in advance!

C.J.

[Murr1525]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

I would be betting that most of them do. At least of the paste/cream types of products.

[greg0303]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

This thread has all the info you needed:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...op-Safe-or-Not

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

The majority of our consumer products do, but the majority of the Mirror Glaze do not contain silicones. The MG line is pro body shop line, primarily, and silicones are a big no-no in that arena. In the consumer line they actually make the products easier to work with for the most part.

And really, unless you're actually working in a body shop or other environment where fresh paint is being sprayed, the presence of silicones is a complete non issue. Sure, there's plenty of old nonsense on the ol' interwebs about how silicone will rot your tires, crack your dash, etc but it's all just that - nonsense.

[Blueline]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

how silicone will rot your tires, crack your dash, etc but it's all just that - nonsense.

If that is the case why does GM not recommend products containing silicone? Both of my GM owners manuals (page 5-85) state "Do NOT use silicone or wax-based products to clean your vehicle's interior because they can alter the appearance." Might be perfectly fine for exterior paint use, but I wouldn't use a product with silicone in my interior OR on my tires. I used a silicone based product on my Michelines, and the tires turned brown (bloomed). They don't turn brown with non silicone products. You may call it nonsense (because you have a dog in the race) ,,,,but where there is smoke, (silicone warnings) there usually is fire.

[cbourke]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

If that is the case why does GM not recommend products containing silicone? Both of my GM owners manuals (page 5-85) state "Do NOT use silicone or wax-based products to clean your vehicle's interior because they can alter the appearance." Might be perfectly fine for exterior paint use, but I wouldn't use a product with silicone in my interior OR on my tires. I used a silicone based product on my Michelines, and the tires turned brown (bloomed). They don't turn brown with non silicone products. You may call it nonsense (because you have a dog in the race) ,,,,but where there is smoke, (silicone warnings) there usually is fire.

What's your take on using waxes and anything else that contains silicones on the paint????? I've switched to only using clay bar, cleaners and Show Glaze to take care of the paint due to numerous body shop gurus telling me to stay away from ALL waxes (silicones)...............they say just clean the paint and let the clear coat do it's job!

[jfelbab]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

What's your take on using waxes and anything else that contains silicones on the paint????? I've switched to only using clay bar, cleaners and Show Glaze to take care of the paint due to numerous body shop gurus telling me to stay away from ALL waxes (silicones)...............they say just clean the paint and let the clear coat do it's job!

I'd suggest you find some real guru's. The ones who actually know what they're taking about. But do what you want. Its your car and your paint to neglect as you wish.

[davey g-force]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

What's your take on using waxes and anything else that contains silicones on the paint????? I've switched to only using clay bar, cleaners and Show Glaze to take care of the paint due to numerous body shop gurus telling me to stay away from ALL waxes (silicones)...............they say just clean the paint and let the clear coat do it's job!

Yes, but that's coming from the body shop guys. A body shop environment is the only case where silicones are a no-no, so of course they're going to say that.

[Blueline]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

What's your take on using waxes and anything else that contains silicones on the paint????? I.............they say just clean the paint and let the clear coat do it's job!

I have a tendency to agree with you: let the clear coat do it's job. . Back in the 50s women everywhere used to get up on Saturday morning and wax the kitchen floor, then they came out with no-wax floors..no more waxing. Back in the 70s men used to get up on Saturday morning and go wax the family station wagon. Then they came out with clear coat..the need to wax became debatable. Most people keep their cars a few years and trade, so the clear coat is ideal. It will still look good after a few years, waxed or not. Our silver 2000 was never waxed, washed with dish soap for 6 years, and looked fine when traded. I do wax the newer black car because wax does enhance the black gloss, have the time to do it, and frankly it is somewhat enjoyable. If time was a factor, and it was not enjoyable, it wouldn't be done. I do not believe for one minute wax protects the clearcoat to any great degree, and certainly don't believe the nonsense that the clear coat absorbs polishing oils. So in answer to your question, I have no issues with silicone in car body waxes, just interior and tire products. While I have seen several wax protection tests, all were on bare metal, so sure, there is some protection again rust, but cars are painted, not bare metal. If we had a white vehicle, or another silver one, it would never be waxed. Just, as you say, clayed and maybe a glaze. I know I will be thoroughly trounced by the waxing community, however this is what I believe, and it is based on my experience (not a pro), a healthy dose of skepticism, and a Father who worked in the aerospace industry...paint was his thing.

[greg0303]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

The whole idea behind protection products (waxes/ sealants/ permanent coatings) is to create a sacrificial barrier which would protect paint surface.

We all have seen pictures of vehicles with clear coat failure. They definitely haven't been waxed regularly.

I believe that protection products really help keeping paint surface in good shape over time. Now when many people tend to use their cars for longer period of time regular detailing maintenance, like wash & wax or wash/ clay/ clean/ polish/ wax, would help them prevent their rides from any problems and make them look good longer.

[cbourke]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

The whole idea behind protection products (waxes/ sealants/ permanent coatings) is to create a sacrificial barrier which would protect paint surface.

We all have seen pictures of vehicles with clear coat failure. They definitely haven't been waxed regularly.

I believe that protection products really help keeping paint surface in good shape over time. Now when many people tend to use their cars for longer period of time regular detailing maintenance, like wash & wax or wash/ clay/ clean/ polish/ wax, would help them prevent their rides from any problems and make them look good longer.

Don't get me wrong........I have a real hard time NOT waxing or "quick detailing" my vehicles because it feels like I'm not taking care of them!!!! The people that are telling me this really know their trade (30+ years of trial and error) so it's not just Joe Blow from the local body shop with less than a year of experience. The reason they say all silicone containing products are bad is because it traps the oxygen in the paint and doesn't allow it to breathe which leads to oxidation that you see on the tops of so many cars. They said the vehicles look great when you wax hence the sensation of taking care of our babies, but he said for longevity, keep the silicones off and just keep the paint clean...........Meguiars Show Glaze and such items is all they ever use to keep it looking sweet!

[davey g-force]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

There seems to be two arguments here:
1. Whether you should use silicone based products on the paint of your vehicle;
2. Whether you need to wax your paint at all, since that's what the clear coat is for.

My response would be "yes" to both. We need to keep in mind that clear coat is just paint after all...

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Ah yes, the old "silicone will crack your dash, rot your tires, etc" myth.


There is no such thing as a "silicone based" product for use on your vehicles interior or exterior. Products are either water based or solvent based, and most water based products contain some silicone. But silicone is an inert ingredient that is used to either enhance a property of another ingredient, make application and/or removal of a product easier, or possibly add gloss.

Most of us hang out on other car forums as well as detailing forums, and almost every car forum has a detailing section and a self appointed guru. And each of those forums receives the same couple of questions from a member somewhere along the line: "what's the best stuff to use on my dash?" and "what do you guys use on your tires?". Let's take a look at that first one: "what's the best stuff to use on my dash?" Invariably you get 5 guys offering up 5 different products, and at least a couple of guys who say to stay away from Armor All because it will crack your dash, or to stay away from silicone based products and to use only water based products. That's just a lot of misinformation. Armor All is not going to crack your dash. Period. Armor All has to be the single most maligned product in the industry, and there's just no good reason for it. From a purely technical standpoint, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using Armor All on your dash or other appropriate interior parts. Now, you may find it leaves a glossier finish than you like, but that's a personal choice and has nothing to do with any damage risk.

On another forum I frequent this very question, "what's the best stuff to use on my dash?", came up a couple of years back. And all the usual answers were given. Except for the one guy who took the water based vs silicone based bunk a step further. He mentioned a specific water based dressing that he'd been using on all his cars every month for several years and never had the slightest issue. Proof, he said, that water based was the way to go. So I looked up the product he was recommending and obtained their MSDS document and then compared it to our Natural Shine, also a water based product, and one that contains some silicone. Well, as it turns out, his beloved water based product contains silicone, too, and nearly double the amount found in Natural Shine. That's not good, bad, or otherwise - it just is. Silicone is not the issue at all. When I pointed this out in the thread, he never responded.

As for tire use, the browning or "blooming" as it's called is caused by the anti ozonants built into the tire leaching to the surface in order to do their job and protect the rubber from dry rot and the effects of ozone. Some tires will exhibit more blooming than others, and any sort of solvent (no matter how mild) in a tire dressing can release these anti ozonants from the surface and reveal the brown discoloration. We used to have 4 cars at home, and each car had a different brand of tire. All 4 cars were treated the exact same way, and got the exact same tire dressing on a regular basis. Only the Michelin shod car had this brown discoloration on the sidewalls, and it was sort of a pain to deal with. If it was the product causing it, why didn't the other three brands show this discoloration? It's down to the proprietary mix of anti-ozonants used by the various tire manufacturers.

So why does any car company caution against the use of silicone or any other ingredient in their manuals? Mostly to cover themselves, and in a very broad way. People do some pretty silly things sometimes and will use some, shall we say "interesting" products where they shouldn't be used. It's easier for a manufacturer to paint these cautions with very broad strokes. Heck, Chevrolet recommends the use of a black wax on the carbon fiber trim of the ZR1 Corvette. Why? So that the wax won't leave white residue in the fine textured areas of the piece. How many black waxes do you know of? We can think of one. How many waxes will dry completely clear and not leave a residue? We can think of plenty.

Oh, by the way, the comment from the body shop guy who said "silicone containing products are bad is because it traps the oxygen in the paint and doesn't allow it to breathe which leads to oxidation that you see on the tops of so many cars. " is nonsense. The vast majority of cars you see with clear coat failure were never waxed, or maybe waxed a bit when new and then neglected. Waxes and sealants, even with silicone in them, are sacrificial barriers that break down over time. For those people who wax a car once a year, that car spends more time with virtually nothing on the paint rather than a fresh coat of silicone. Besides, if you're waxing the whole car, how come that clear coat failure is so common on the tops (as was mentioned) and so incredibly rare on the sides? If you're waxing the whole car wouldn't the effects be the same regardless of panel orientation?

[Blueline]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Ah yes, the old "silicone will crack your dash, rot your tires, etc" myth.


Oh, by the way, the comment from the body shop guy who said "silicone containing products are bad is because it traps the oxygen in the paint and doesn't allow it to breathe which leads to oxidation that you see on the tops of so many cars. " is nonsense. The vast majority of cars you see with clear coat failure were never waxed, or maybe waxed a bit when new and then neglected. Waxes and sealants, even with silicone in them, are sacrificial barriers that break down over time. For those people who wax a car once a year, that car spends more time with virtually nothing on the paint rather than a fresh coat of silicone. Besides, if you're waxing the whole car, how come that clear coat failure is so common on the tops (as was mentioned) and so incredibly rare on the sides? If you're waxing the whole car wouldn't the effects be the same regardless of panel orientation?

I would agree that the body shop comment is nonsense. Trapping oxygen??? I would put pure silicone on my clearcoat, as it absorbs nothing. Clearcoat failure on top is simply due to the sun and heat, in my opinion. You can fry an egg on my black horizontal surfaces, and the vertical ones are almost cool. Again, in my opinion, if you are going to park your car out in the sun all day, you can wax it 'till the cows come home, but if it is prone to failure, it will. I cannot possibly comprehend how a micron (whatever the thickness is) of wax can prevent clearcoat failure. In my opinion, waxing is for aesthetics, to enhance beauty, and to give me something to do. And I do love the effect of M16 on black.

[jfelbab]

Re: Which Products Have Silicone?????

Wax and sealants make your car easier to clean. Dirt and industrial contaminants don't stick as well so washing them off is easier. These micron thin coatings also help to protect your paint from etching from acetic sources like acid rain and big droppings. I've been through enough of this to conclude that a sealant and especially a coat of carnauba wax does help prevent paint etching.

For a few years I worked on Lake Michigan where you would see thousands (literally) of seagulls daily. They would poop on everything and I determined through trial and error that carnauba does indeed prevent etching for a time, much better than a sealant in this regard. I also was surrounded by a coal fired power plant, several foundries and a major freeway system on two sides. The acid rain was unbelievable. If anyone thinks that these coatings don't do anything but make a car look nice you are misinformed. I can prove this if you care to pay a visit. It will only take a few weeks in this location to convince you.