Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

[dschribs]

I just used D300 on a MF cutting disc for the first time this weekend. I'm working on my red 2001 Pontiac Trans Am WS-6. I have only had the car for a short while and this is the first opportunity I have had to remove some very obvious micro marring and swirling the prior owner had managed to instill into the paint. Overall though, the paint was in pretty decent shape.

My process was as follows:

- D300/MF cutting disc on my Griots polisher (speed 4)
- Megs 205 on a blue Uber final polish pad (speed 5)
- Red Moose Glaze
- Carnauba Moose Wax

To make sure I had the hang of the MF system, I did a test spot on the rear spoiler - the rear spoilers are HUGE on these cars so it was the perfect pallet to test my process. After using the D300/MF cutting disc followed by 205 on the blue Uber pad I backed the car out into the sun to check things out. Everything looked great. I was extremely pleased. It looked as though I had the processed nailed... Until I saw the hood today out in the direct sunlight. I could clearly see evenly spaced buffer trails from where I had used the D300 on the hood.

The WS6 cars are a little different from the standard Trans Am. A company called ASC (American Sunroof Corporation) turned stock Pontiac Firebirds into Trans Am Ram Air WS6s from 1998-2002. Cars were shipped to ASC from Pontiac

[aerogt01]

Re: Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

Ok, I have to ask:
- Did you wash clay the car beforehand? Just making sure.
- Were you cleaning the pad (compressed air/brush/towel) every time?
- Did your pad start to discolor? (Turn grey/dark on the edges?)

It sounds like you picked up some contamination and were dragging it around, or your pad got too dirty.
Another thought - If the Uber pad was dirty it could leave pigtails as well.

I love detailing but sometimes I hate having to work clean clean clean! Drop your towel? Can't use it anymore. Drop your clay? Toss it!

[davey g-force]

Re: Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

Hmm... interesting. So when you looked today in direct sunlight, were there any holograms on your original test spot on the spoiler?

I wonder if the D301 on a MF finishing pad would clear them up?

[Wukin2k2]

Re: Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

I see many ppl have this kind of issue. It isnt a real buffer Trail created by rotary. It is polishing oil/lubricant from either D300 or M205 when you overuse products or not buffing long enough. If you apply quick detailer on it for wiping, make it even worse. Try to use less product and re polish that area with M205 again.

[Marc08EX]

Re: Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

Buffer trails or holograms can only be instilled by a rotary.

If the D/A micro scratches are indeed being left by the D300 and MF cutting discs then it just means the paint of our hood is extremely soft. Did you check your work after the D300 step? Was the paint worse in this step than after hitting it with M205?

[dschribs]

Re: Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

Ok, I have to ask:
- Did you wash clay the car beforehand? Just making sure.
- Were you cleaning the pad (compressed air/brush/towel) every time?
- Did your pad start to discolor? (Turn grey/dark on the edges?)

The car was given a foam bath, washed with the 2 bucket method then clayed. The pads did not discolor no. I cleaned the pads after every application with compressed air.

Hmm... interesting. So when you looked today in direct sunlight, were there any holograms on your original test spot on the spoiler?

I wonder if the D301 on a MF finishing pad would clear them up?

No issues with the spoiler. Only the hood has these issues.

Buffer trails or holograms can only be instilled by a rotary.

If the D/A micro scratches are indeed being left by the D300 and MF cutting discs then it just means the paint of our hood is extremely soft. Did you check your work after the D300 step? Was the paint worse in this step than after hitting it with M205?

They are not holograms in the true sense of the word - Just not sure what else to call them. They are evenly spaced marks that correspond to where each of the rotations were on the DA. Almost looks like if you polished a panel and didn't remove the polish. The impressions of the buffer are in the paint.

I didn't check out the hood after each process since things came out great on the spoiler. In hindsight obviously I would have been a good idea...

[jfelbab]

Re: Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

I wonder if the ASC conversion process may have required the hood to be repainted. If this is the case, the paint is likely softer on the hood and likely requires a different approach from what works on the factory paint. The Meg's MF pads are not recommended on repaints as I recall. While I've used the MF pads on repaints myself, they were several year old vehicles.

There is a thread here somewhere about dealing with delicate paint. Here it is: http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...delicate+paint

I think I'd try redoing another test spot on the hood. Instead of finishing with #205 why not take a stab at using Swirl Remover or even a cleaner wax as the final jeweling product with the finishing pad.

I'm a bit surprised however, that the glaze didn't hide these buffer trails, as RMG is pretty oily. Are you are sure that the trails are not just RMG's excess oils? They don't disappear with UQW or UQD? Did you apply the RMG and the wax with the Griots or by hand? Was the finishing pad you used new?

You should be able to use a foam hand applicator pad and test out a few polishes on the hood and see what works.

[dschribs]

Re: Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

I wonder if the ASC conversion process may have required the hood to be repainted. If this is the case, the paint is likely softer on the hood and likely requires a different approach from what works on the factory paint. The Meg's MF pads are not recommended on repaints as I recall. While I've used the MF pads on repaints myself, they were several year old vehicles.

There is a thread here somewhere about dealing with delicate paint. Here it is: http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...delicate+paint

I think I'd try redoing another test spot on the hood. Instead of finishing with #205 why not take a stab at using Swirl Remover or even a cleaner wax as the final jeweling product with the finishing pad.

I'm a bit surprised however, that the glaze didn't hide these buffer trails, as RMG is pretty oily. Are you are sure that the trails are not just RMG's excess oils? They don't disappear with UQW or UQD? Did you apply the RMG and the wax with the Griots or by hand? Was the finishing pad you used new?

You should be able to use a foam hand applicator pad and test out a few polishes on the hood and see what works.

I believe the hood had a different paint process than the rest of the car. That's probably the explanation as to why the remainder of the car looks great.

I didn't UQW or UQD the hood after waxing. I could try that before rebuffing but I don't think the marks are from either the wax or the glaze I use a different technique when applying glaze/wax and make long flowing strokes over the paint versus tighter overlapping passes that are closer together when I polish. The visible marks basically follow the pattern I use when I polish. I applied the RMG and wax with the Griots polisher on speed 4 both using a LC black pad. The pad was new yes.

[dschribs]

Re: Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

I just noticed my original post did not come through entirely...weird....

Anyway, I'll just repost the entire question again. Sorry - this may help clarify things a little better too.

Here goes...

I just used D300 on a MF cutting disc for the first time this weekend. I'm working on my red 2001 Pontiac Trans Am WS-6 (see my avatar). I have only had the car for a short while and this is the first opportunity I have had to remove some very obvious micro marring and swirling the prior owner had managed to instill into the paint. Overall though, the paint was in pretty decent shape.

My process was as follows:

- D300/MF cutting disc on my Griots polisher (speed 4)
- Megs 205 on a blue Uber final polish pad (speed 5)
- Red Moose Glaze
- Carnauba Moose Wax

To make sure I had the hang of the MF system, I did a test spot on the rear spoiler - the rear spoilers are HUGE on these cars so it was the perfect pallet to test my process. After using the D300/MF cutting disc and 205 on the blue Uber pad I backed the car out into the sun to check things out. Everything looked great. I was extremely pleased. It looked as though I had the processed nailed... Until I saw the hood today out in the direct sunlight. I could clearly see evenly spaced buffer trails from where I had used the D300 on the hood.

The WS6 cars are a little different from the standard Trans Am. A company called ASC (American Sunroof Corporation) turned stock Pontiac Firebirds into Trans Am Ram Air WS6s from 1998-2002. Cars were shipped to ASC from Pontiac’s assembly plant where the fiberglass ram-air hoods and WS6 components were installed. I'm wondering if perhaps the paint process for the hood at ASC was slightly different then the paint process GM had for the rest of the car and that's why I see these buffer trails ONLY on the hood.

I actually spoke to Kevin Brown about this issue and we do have a plan of attack. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the sun will be out for the next few days in CT and since I only notice these buffer trails in direct sunlight (not under the halogens OR the incandescents in my garage) I will need a few days to see if we are on the right track.

Has anyone experienced these types of buffer trails when using the cutting part of the Meg's MF system? I'm wondering maybe my process after using the D300 should have been "stepped up" a bit and perhaps I should have used a LC white or even orange pad with the 205. Maybe the blue Uber pad was just too soft to remove the slight marring the D300/MF left on the hood...

[Wukin2k2]

Re: Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

IME, there are 2 things that may cause feint holograms.
1 from Polishing oil/lubricant of compound or polish.
Another 1 is streaking of Wax.
Most likely DA is impossible to instill holograms, so I bet it is streaking. Which means you apply wax too thick or some residues left over. Spray QD is only making it worse. It is simply because QD spread it even more. Just my 2 cents

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Megs D300/MF - buffer trails

What you're seeing aren't holograms, nor left over oils from the glaze, nor caused by a short buffing cycle with the D300/microfiber cutting disc. What you're seeing is the result of a very aggressive process on fairly delicate paint, and we've seen it before. It is a bit surprising that your follow up of M205 on a foam pad didn't fully remove them, but if you were using an extremely soft pad and light pressure, which it sounds like you did, then your guess that this combo was too gentle to remove the DA haze created by D300/DMC5 is spot on.

You can do a couple of things to correct this situation:

• Go back over the hood with M205 on a foam polishing pad, then redo your glaze and wax
• Go back over the hood with D300 on a foam polishing pad, then just to really boost the gloss and clarity repeat your M205/Uber blue, glaze and wax steps

From everything you described it really sounds like the repaint of the hood has left that surface with paint that responds very differently to this input than the rest of the car. The DAMF system loves hard paint, and that love is returned by the hard paint. But softer paints just don't play well with it due to the level of aggressiveness it provides. The recommendation above to use D300 on a foam polishing pad for soft paint has proven itself several times to be an outstanding process, so it would probably be our first shot at correcting your issue.

[Detailing by M]

[QUOTE=Marc08EX:504002]Buffer trails or holograms can only be instilled by a rotary./QUOTE]

Hum....you can do it with a da if you go to fast

I think it might be your technique or dirty pads?