Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

[James McEwan]

Hello Michael Stoops,

I have spend a considerable time searching & reading through the forum (before I joined), for recommendations on products & applications for my car, but I couldn't find an ideal recommendation for my car and with a DA, as a lot of the posts are for using with a Rotary or with products that the customers already own, or on clear coat cars. I would greatly appreciate your help. I've read the guides and hope I've followed the forum rules OK. I realize I've written a lot, but I've highlighted the actual questions at the end of the post.

Car/Paint:
1999 UK model, Toyota MR2 Mk2 Rev5, original paint, solid colour (non clear coat) single stage (substrate, electro deposition, primer surfacer, color coat (urethane & solvent)), paint code 3E5 (Super Red). The paint is all original (no re-spray), except for the front bumper, which was only re-sprayed last year, so I'm happy to skip restoration steps but use the same products that I use on the rest of the car.

http://gcia.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/T-CRIB-0062-W.pdf

I’m looking to 1 days detail on it and follow up the next day with futher coats in necessary and if dry! My first preference is durability, but secondly would also like it to have a good colour depth/finish etc.

So, decision time:

Obviously wash & dry first, then clay as required (sometimes needed less on single stage but “baggy test”). After claying a section, while the surface is still wet with your clay lubricant, use a microfiber polishing cloth to wipe that section dry.

I know always start with the least aggressive product, but wondering which products should I buy, however I don't mind if I buy a product that I don't need, as the lighter product has done the job, for example I might not need M83 and just do repeated passes with M80 Speed Glaze, or just use M83 in the worst areas.

I've picked the following possibilities at my best guess options, but what would you recommend, thanks?:

1. Usual preferred professional products on single stage red. - Though are any of the other/newer products better for this paint?
+ M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish - (optional, if heavy paint damage) with oils to feed the single stage paint and a bit more aggressive than Ultimate Compound.
+ M80 Speed Glaze - (after M83, or if only medium paint damage)
+ M07 Show Car Glaze- (optional, to put more oils in and add a glaze)
+ M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - (optional, for added durability, but you'd need either M21 or M26 or both)
- M26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax - (optional, to soften the look add depth, but you'd need either M21 or M26 or both)

2. Usual preferred new professional products on modern paints. - These SMAT products are too harsh for this paint and don't have enough oils etc, to feed this paint?
- M105 Ultra Cut Compound – Too harsh for old soft single stage.
- M205 Ultra Finishing Polish - M205 is a bit less aggressive than M83.
+ M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - To seal in the polish & glaze for a few months. leave it cure for 12 hours and apply a second coat. Wipe the finish slowly.

3. Usual preferred consumer products on modern paints. - These products are best for very mild defects and by hand application.
- Deep Crystal Cleaner Wax - Only mild cleaning, not strong enough for this level of oxidation/fading. Non-abrasive Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner safely removes road grime, surface contamination, light oxidation, swirls, and light scratches to restore damaged and dull finishes.
- A21 Deep Crystal Polish -
- Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax - mild cleaner in it.
or
+ G103 ScratchX 2.0 -
+ G176 SwirlX -
+ ColorX
+ NXT 2.0 - Deep gloss. Both better than Gold Class (a carnauba product) for durability. a synthetic wax that actually contains other polishing and cleaning agents. NXT leaves a cling wrap look.
or Gold Class - Natural shine.

4. Usual prefered new consumer products on modern paints. - These products are for hand and DA?
+ Ultimate Compound - with oils so good for old paints, but it's SMAT, some say diminishing abrashives are better for single stage.
or G103 ScratchX 2.0 -
+ G176 SwirlX -
+ G192 Ultimate Polish -
+ G182 Ultimate Liquid Wax - Longest lasting. Easiest & quickest to use.

5. Don't stick to one product line and go for something like this:
+ G172 Ultimate Compound - Restores color and clarity to abused & neglected finishes. This hi-tech compound cuts as fast as harsh abrasives without scratching or scouring. This is the fast, easy way to remove oxidation, scratches and swirl marks.
+ G192 Ultimate Polish - Pure polish. This pre-waxing glaze eliminates fine swirl marks to produce deep, wet reflections with high gloss. Also adds depth of color, especially on dark-colored cars, & leaves the paint finish incredibly clear & glossy with mirror-like reflections.
+ M07 Show Car Glaze - to put oils into the paint & keep it looking rich after polishing. Apply a thin coat to the entire car. Then, Go around the car two to three times, removing a little bit at a time.
+ NXT Tech Wax -
or Ultimate Liquid Wax - Richens the color and easier to use. Watch the Ultimate liquid wax video first.

6. Very Delicate Paint:
If the paint turns to be very delicate, I've read this excellent article how very delicate paint is best treated with the one of the mildest paint cleaners such a ColorX.
++ The Challenge of Delicate Paint - If you get swirls/hazing from product

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?44344-The-Challenge-of-Delicate-Paint

Try these, least aggressive first as usual:-
+ UC to remove heavy defects.
+ SwirlX to remove hazing & swirls.
+ ColorX to remove hazing.

Summary of best mix of options:
+ M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish
or G172 Ultimate Compound
or M02 Fine Cut Cleaner
then,
+ M80 Speed Glaze
or M09 Swirl Remover
or G176 SwirlX
then,
+ M07 Show Car Glaze
or A21 Deep Crystal Polish
then,
+ M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0
or G127 NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0 with the same technique.
or G182 Ultimate Wax - richens the color and easier to use.

QUESTIONS:
For the solid single stage red paint with some oxidation & fading, both worse in some areas than others:
Q1. What would be the best option or could you suggest a better option?
I thought the best option might be option "1." or is that what used to be the best option until the newer products came out, so maybe option “4.” is better? Are these older products still best for old single stage paint? Though I've read that for dried out old single stage paint, I should use the older products, M83/M80 which have a good amount of oils in them to feed the paint, compared to the newer SMAT products such as M105, M205 & Ultimate compound, though I think Ultimate Compound has more oils than M105/M205. I think diminishing abrasives such as M83 & M80 better for delicate single stage, than SMAT such as M105 & M205? Also I think the M83 & M80 contain more oils etc to nourish & moisturize old dry single stage paint?

Q2. Should I use M07 as the first stage product or after the compound/cleaners or both?
I've read that this can cut down on the need to compound/cleaner and also that it allows the dry paint to feed on pure oils, rather than the oils & cleaners in compound/cleaners, but wondered if using M07 before the compound/cleaners, would make the compound/cleaners less effective or harder to see if you are getting rid of the oxidation.

Thank you very much,
James

[Michael Stoops]

Re: What is usually the best detailing products for old solid single stage red paint?

James, we're reluctant to delete this thread if only because it looks as though you've put a lot of work into it!


To cut to chase, however, we'd recommend starting with your "Option 1" given that you're dealing with a single stage paint. Your thoughts following Q1 below are absolutely spot on but we'd like to add that M105 can become quite problematic when used on very dried out older paints. It is also extremely aggressive. For those two reasons alone we would steer you away from M105 on this particular car. Whether you would need M80 or M83 is hard to say without actually doing a test spot, or at least seeing the car. We'd start with a test spot using M80 and a foam polishing pad at speed 5 with just light to moderate pressure and work up from there.

Q1. What would be the best option or could you suggest a better option?
I thought the best option might be option "1." or is that what used to be the best option until the newer products came out, or are these older products still best for old single stage paint? Though I've read that for dried out old single stage paint, I should use the older products, M83/M80 which have a good amount of oils in them to feed the paint, compared to the newer SMAT products such as M105, M205 & Ultimate compound, though I think Ultimate Compound has more oils than M105/M205. I think diminishing abrasives such as M83 & M80 better for delicate single stage, than SMAT such as M105 & M205? Also I think the M83 & M80 contain more oils etc to nourish & moisturise old dry single stage paint?

Use of M07 as a precursor to the use of a cleaner/polish such as M80 or M83 is usually only needed if the paint is extremely oxidized and dry, especially to the point of making correction difficult. Your assumption that doing so, however, could make it more difficult to see if you're actually correcting the paint is valid, at least to a point. Certainly on softer single stage paints even the mechanical action of an applicator pad using M07 will pull some color, but the abrasives in M80/M83 won't really be compromised by the presence of M07 as a bit of a prep step. Whether or not you really need it is hard to say, again without working or at least seeing the car.

Q2. Should I use M07 as the first stage product or after the compound/cleaners or both?
I've read that this can cut down on the need to compound/cleaner and also that it allows the dry paint to feed on pure oils, rather than the oils & cleaners in compound/cleaners, but wondered if using M07 before the compound/cleaners, would make the compound/cleaners less effective or harder to see if you are getting rid of the oxidation.

Thank you very much,
James

Something else to consider here - this is single stage paint from 1999, not 1969. As such, from a chemical composition it's probably going to be a bit different than those old school single stage lacquers. This could actually be a urethane single stage and therefore a bit harder than what most people expect a single stage lacquer paint to be. That could mean that M80 alone, skipping M07, would be the preferred process. As always, though, a test spot or two (or three) is in order. As we said earlier, and especially in light of the above observation, our gut feeling (again, without seeing the car) would be to do our first test spot with M80 and a foam polishing pad.

[James McEwan]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

I've read these great guides thanks!:
Tips & Techniques for using the G110, G100, G220 and the PC Dual Action Polisher

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?20874-Tips-amp-Techniques-for-using-the-G110-G100-G220-and-the-PC-Dual-Action-Polisher

D/A Buffing 101 An Introduction to the G110v2 (and similar)

Using the G-100 to remove swirls, scratches and etchings...

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?7034-Using-the-G-100-to-remove-swirls-scratches-and-etchings

The Challenge of Delicate Paint

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?44344-The-Challenge-of-Delicate-Paint

List O' Links 2.0

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?26009-List-O-Links-2-0

I found the most helpful post below, from Michael Stoops. I've just added cut ratings and product descriptions to help me decide.
________________________________________
Product, Pad and Speed settings for the G110 Dual Action Polisher
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...hlight=product pad speed settings

Product Cut Pad Speed

Compounds:
- M105 Ultra Cut Compound 12/12 W8207 4-5
Excellent for removing scratches, defects, acid rain damage, severe swirl marks, water spots and buffer holograms. Ultra-fast cutting removes 1200 grit or finer sanding marks.

Paint Cleaners:
- M01 Medium Cut Cleaner 7/10 W8207 4-5
Rotary buffer only. Follow with Swirl Remover (#9) to restore gloss. Removes medium defects, including swirls, water spots and water sanding marks.
+ M02 Fine Cut Cleaner 5/10 W8207 4-5
The best answer for removing light oxidation, swirls, scratches and hard water spots.
- G103 ScratchX 2.0 N/R W8207 4-5
For isolated Paint Problems. Restores a Brilliant Clear Finish. To remove paint blemishes fast while restoring brilliant high gloss.
+ G172 Ultimate Compound N/R W8207 4-5
Restores color and clarity to abused & neglected finishes. This hi-tech compound cuts as fast as harsh abrasives without scratching or scouring. This is the fast, easy way to remove oxidation, scratches and swirl marks. UC is derived from M105 which is a fairly dry compound.

Cleaner/Polishes:
+ M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish 6/10 W8207 4-5
Removes light to medium contamination, blemishes and oxidation that Swirl Free Polish will not. Light to medium oxidation.
- M82 Swirl Free Polish 3/10 W8207 4-5
The next step up in aggressiveness from Meguiar's Hand Polish. Enhanced cutting power to tackle fine scratches, as well as more rapidly erase swirls. For fresh paint.
+ M80 Speed Glaze 4/10 W8207 4-5
Enriches gloss and color. Quickly remove light scratches, stains and environmental contaminants. Removes light to moderate swirls, oxidation and paint defects. Restores a glistening "new paint" shine.
+ M09 Swirl Remover 3/10 W8207 4-5
swirl marks, tiny scratches or other mild defects. Gently cleaning, it's also polishing, leaving a dramatic, high-gloss shine. For light oxidation.
- M205 Ultra Finishing Polish 4/12 W8207/W9207 4-5/3-4
Permanently removes swirls and light defects from all paints. Produces deep reflections and high gloss. Smooth-glide buffing feel and fast wipe-off.
+ G176 SwirlX N/R W8207 4-5
Remove stubborn swirl marks by hand or machine quickly, with minimum effort. Remove swirl marks, cobweb-effect, and holograms to restore crystal clear reflections and a show car perfect shine. Non-abrasive formula gently smoothes away micro-fine swirl marks on all paint finishes.

Pure Polishes:
- M03 Machine Glaze 1/10 W9207 2-3
The ultimate rotary machine-applied shine.
- M05 New Car Glaze N/R W9207 2-3
Provides rich nutrients to restore paint's shine. Produces a high gloss with minimum effort.
+ M07 Show Car Glaze N/R W9207 2-3
Will outshine all other hand-applied polishes, glazes, waxes or sealants. Restores a dazzling, deep, wet shine.
- A21 Deep Crystal Polish N/R W9207 2-3
Pure car polish specially formulated for dark-colored cars. Creates a brilliant, high gloss finish by conditioning and nourishing paint through the replenishment of valuable oils. This makes dark colors darker and reflections deeper.

Cleaner Waxes:
- M06 Cleaner Wax N/R W8207/W9207 3-4
One-step application cleans, polishes and protects. Removes light oxidation and create a long lasting, high gloss finish.
- M20 Polymer Sealant N/R W8207/W9207 3-4
Polymer based car wax formulation provides extra-durable paint protection. A unique blend of polymers, silicones and imported waxes that create a brilliant high gloss finish that outlasts all other traditional waxes.
- M66 Quick Detailer 4/10 W8207/W9207 3-4
One-step cleaner/wax, specially formulated for high-production reconditioning. Quickly and safely removes oxidation and blemishes. Restores deep gloss and provides a durable wax finish.
-/+ G118 ColorX N/R W8207/W9207 3-4
One-step car polish and wax system. Restore deep color and gloss from your oxidized or contaminated paint finish. Helps remove fine scratches and swirl marks too.
- A12 Cleaner Wax N/R W8207/W9207 3-4
Rich conditioning oils and legendary gentle cleaning ability. Meguiar’s most versatile, one step wax. Rich conditioning oils and legendary gentle cleaning ability.
- D151 Paint Reconditioning Cream N/R W8207/W9207 3-4
Cuts, polishes and protect with one fast liquid.

Polish/Waxes:
- G70 Gold Class Wax 0 W9207 2-3
Will dramatically darken color. Conditioners nourish and enrich paint to create clear, deep reflections and brilliant shine. Reflect damaging UV rays, remove fine swirls, and create strong, long-lasting protection.
+ G127 NXT Generation Tech Wax 2.0 0 W9207 2-3
Produces unbelievably deep, vibrant color and a dramatically clear wet-look. Hydrophobic Polymer Technology™ provides relentless water beading and protection against oxidation, corrosion, UV rays and surface degradation. Water beads up and just glides off your paint finish.
+ G192 Ultimate Polish 0 W9207 2-3 [This product wasn't listed but I think it falls here.]
Pure polish. This pre-waxing glaze eliminates fine swirl marks to produce deep, wet reflections with high gloss. Also adds depth of color, especially on dark-colored cars, & leaves the paint finish incredibly clear & glossy with mirror-like reflections.

Pure Waxes:
- M26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax 0 W9207 2-3
Blends premium yellow Carnauba wax with silicones, polymers and other specialty waxes It provides maximum high gloss protection while it actually deepens your paint color. Adds richness and depth of color. You do it on top of M21, after 12 hours, to soften the look from the sealant & enhances the depth, as M26 is best for solid single stage reds, but just lasts a few weeks.
+ M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 0 W9207 2-3
Produces a noticeable deeper, darker, more reflective paint finish. It visually eliminates fine scratches and swirls, creating a flawless finish. premium Hydrophobic Polymer.
- A22 Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax 0 W9207 2-3
Delivers durable, long-lasting high gloss protection with superb water beading action. Creates a strong, protective barrier on your paint that locks in shine and gloss.
+ G182 Ultimate Liquid Wax 0 W9207 2-3 [This product wasn't listed but I think it falls here.]
Long lasting. Our most advanced hydrophobic wax! a pure synthetic wax that provides extended protection with amplified reflectivity that won't leave a white residue on trim & plastic. Meguiar's ThinFilm technology delivers our easiest application & removal. Longest-lasting protective barrier, amplifying reflections for incredible depth & mirror-like shine.

[BillyJack]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

James, very few are greater fans than I of M07, but I have to agree with Michael's reply. SS urethane paints from the 90's are completely different than the SS lacquers and enamels of the 80's and back. If you were dealing with old-school paints, I would highly recommend following the processes detailed in this article by Mike Phillips, utilizing M07 to moisturize the paint prior to machine polishing: http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/...ge-paints.html
In your case, following the principle of "least aggressive" product, after washing and claying, I'd start with M80 and a medium pad. After inspection, any areas that have deeper scratches/swirls could be spot-treated with either UC or M105 using a more aggressive pad, followed by a final pass with M80. You could certainly follow with a rub of M07, but your paint won't respond to it as dramatically as the older paints. M80 finishes well enough that you may want to go directly to your LSP of choice. My preference is a sealant first, followed by a wax. M26 is great over your preferred sealant. but considering you live in a country where old-school M16 is available and you have the ability to apply by machine, M16 would be my first choice, offering good looks along with long durability.

Bill

[James McEwan]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

Thanks Billyjack, It makes sense now.

Thanks Michael, I don't mind buying M83 & M80 and from testing on the day if M83 isn't needed that's OK, as I'll have to get them mail order anyway. Most online shops in the UK, sell a Meguiars DA kit, the G220v2 with pads & M83 & M80 being the typical offer, so I'll get that one. Other offers are the DA with the microfibre kit but I know that's only for clear coats, so I'm staying away from that.

Ah, I see now, thanks for explaining why use of M07 before cleaner/polish is only for extreme cases. As I only have mild oxidation, heavier in some parts, but not the same as the Extreme Makeover examples on here (MOL), I'll just use M80/M83 as you suggest, thanks, testing with the least aggressive M80 first.

Yes, even though I consider my car old, it's a long way off the cars that I've seen with the M07 being used before the cleaner/polish. Yes, I found the paint specification on-line and it is a urethane single stage. I didn't realise that urethane was harder than older single stage types, thanks!

So I'll start with:
+ Test with M80 Speed Glaze (cut 4/10), with foam finishing pad W8207, at speed 4-5.
- If needed, M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish (cut 6/10), with foam finishing pad W8207, at speed 4-5.
After those steps, should I just continue as listed in Option 1:
+ M07 Show Car Glaze - (optional, to put more oils in and add a glaze)
+ M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - (optional, for added durability, but you'd need either M21 or M26 or both)
- M26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax - (optional, to soften the look add depth, but you'd need either M21 or M26 or both)

QUESTIONS:
Q1. Will M07 after M83 be worthwhile on this age of urethane single stage before sealing (I think so, but haven't used it)? Yes?
Originally Posted by Michael Stoops

a pure polish applied to a paint surface, especially one that has experienced repeated exposure to the elements and is a bit more "weathered", will get down into those pores and effectively smooth out the finish. Applying a wax or sealant on top of that will actually give the wax/sealant a flatter, smoother base to lay over but still give plenty of paint surface for it to bond to. The rest of the final curing of the product locks it down over the polish. So the polish isn't actually creating a layer of oil on top of the paint, but rather filling the pores of the paint.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?46204-Ultimate-Wax/page15

Q2. What's the best LSP for this paint, mainly durability and secondly look/color/depth: M21 2.0 or NXT 2.0 or Ultimate? Ultimate?
- NXT 2.0 has some polishing elements, so not good for layering. It's essentially the consumer version of M21 2.0.
- M21 2.0 has less polishing elements, so good for layering. On single stage red, it might look like plastic wrap (Saran Wrap / cling film). Also, M21 is designed so that it can be worked up to a higher temperature, so that it can be used by rotary as well.
+ Ultimate has less polishing elements and will last longer than NXT, but compared to M21, maybe a bit longer than that also. Ultimate is better on darker colours. UW Liquid non-staining on trim. 100% pure synthetic. UW is closer to a polish/wax because of its ability to darken paint. No cleaners in it though.
Originally Posted by Michael Stoops

Personally speaking, I'd say it's still more of the sealant wet glass look, but the darkening prevents that from being the sort of shine that has been (not kindly) described as "wrapped in Saran Wrap" plastic-y. ...Longer lasting than m16.

Great tip:
Originally Posted by Michael Stoops

Since UW spreads so thinly to begin with, and if offers a pretty long play time when using it, you should be able to get a very thin and uniform layer down pretty easily. You won't need a lot of pressure or elbow grease for the application, just make sure to go over every square inch a few times when applying it to ensure that uniform coverage. That's important - we see far too many people apply their wax in large sweeping motions, and they do this very quickly too.
Initially give it 20 minutes or so and then do the swipe test. If it fails the swipe test give it some more time. With the weather we've got now in SoCal you will most likely want to give it 45 minutes or so and then wipe off with a clean microfiber towel. No need to buff vigorously, just wipe it off. You should be fine at that point. But, in the event you do see some streaking, a quick wipe with a very slightly damp towel will take care of it immediately.

Q3. Just to clarify, will M83 (if necessary), then M80 & then M07, then Ultimate Wax; be better for this paint than Ultimate Compound, then Ultimate Polish & then Ultimate Wax? Yes?

BTW I did take some photos of the car yesterday, to put in the first post, but after I looked at them on my PC, I seen that the oxidation & fading didn't show up because the camera-phone had done it's auto-correct to the pictures. I'll get some pictures soon, when it's dry and post up.

Thank you,
James

[Murr1525]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

I'm sure you'll at least want the foam polishing pad with the #80.

- If you find that the #83 leaves a perfect finish, then sure, #7 could help. After #80, it is a bit closer of a call.

- If durability is the priority, then Ult. Wax would be the way to go. Using a spray wax after future washes also helps boos the durability.

- Hard to say for sure until you work on it. UC, #80, #7 if wanted, wax, isnt bad either.

[jfelbab]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

I own a 1991 MR2 in Crimson Red. I bought it new in 1990. I struggled with the aging paint for several years as it slowly oxidized. Toyota's red SS paint was notorious for turning pink. Finally I had it repainted (Super Red BC/CC) but I extended the life of the old paint for several years using your first option. M07 does indeed make a great difference in nursing along this drying SS paint.

Today I'd probably polish and try Opticoat on it. I have to say that no matter what I tried on that paint in it's later years it would begin oxidizing within a week if parked in the sun. I'm not sure OC would seal it enough to prevent that from happening but I'd sure would give it a shot. #26 darkened the paint and made it glow however and I loved that look.

I am very happy with the new paint and find the MR2 Mk2 to be a great car. Few other vehicles are as much fun to drive and its body design is classic and never seems to get old. There are tons of aftermartket parts for this car and I expect to see them on the road for decades to come. I mention all that as I believe that a repaint is probably a worthwhile investment if the mechanicals have been maintained. This car draws interest at a lot of shows and few can guess just how old it is.

This SS paint is VERY soft so correction is super easy even with mild polishes. I usually used M80 and never needed to move up to M83. Today I'd probably go with #205 or Swirl Remover. Since this paint is so SOFT, start gentle and watch the edges where the paint is likely the thinest. My problem areas were where the nose and hood come together. The nose is a molded piece of plastic and the paint along that crease was the thinest. The roof near the rear cowling was also pretty thin. Those were my worst watch areas.

Today my 20 year old MR2 still looks pretty decent.

[Grip]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

About 15 years ago, I also had a SS red MR2 turbo and no matter what I tried, the horizontal surfaces started to fade especially the rear wing.

Someone keyed the side of the car and I bit the bullet and got the car fully resprayed Ferrari Rosso Red with clear coat!

Loved that car, it was a handful in the wet when you hit full boost thou!!

[James McEwan]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

Woops, sorry I just realised that I had a couple of mistakes in my last post. let me correct them and tidy up the post & questions:-

Michael,
So I'll start with:
+ Test with M80 Speed Glaze (cut 4/10), with foam polishing [corrected was finishing but code correct] pad W8207, at speed 4-5.
- If needed, M83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish (cut 6/10), with foam polishing [corrected was finishing but code correct] pad W8207, at speed 4-5.
- M07 Show Car Glaze - (optional, to put more oils in and add a glaze, but M80 might be enough as it's a urethane single stage)
+ M21 Synthetic Sealant 2.0 - (optional, for added durability, but you'd need either M21 or M26 or both) or NXT or M21 or Ultimate?
- M26 Hi-Tech Yellow Wax - (optional, to soften the look add depth, but you'd need either M21 or M26 or both)

QUESTIONS:
Already Answered 1. Will M07 after M80 [was incorect 83] be worthwhile on this age of urethane single stage before sealing (I think so, but haven't used it)? Probably not.
Sorry, I see that you had already answered that:
Originally Posted by Michael Stoops

This could actually be a urethane single stage and therefore a bit harder than what most people expect a single stage lacquer paint to be. That could mean that M80 alone, skipping M07, would be the preferred process. As always, though, a test spot or two (or three) is in order.

It is urethane, therefore after M80, I may not need M07, as M80 might provide enough oils for the paint. Thanks!

Q2. What's the best LSP for this paint, mainly durability and secondly look/color/depth: M21 2.0 or NXT 2.0 or Ultimate Wax?
- NXT 2.0 It's essentially the consumer version of M21 2.0 and will not work at high speeds or temperatures.
- M21 2.0 Just like NXT, on single stage red, it might look like plastic wrap (Saran Wrap / cling film). Also, M21 is designed so that it can be worked up to a higher temperature, so that it can be used by rotary as well.
+ Ultimate Wax has less polishing elements and will last longer than NXT, but compared to M21, maybe a bit longer than that also. Ultimate is better on darker colours. UW Liquid non-staining on trim. UW is closer to a polish/wax because of its ability to darken paint. No cleaners in it though.
I copied the above statements from the forum, but don't know if they're definitively true?

Q3. Just curious, why is M80 & M83 if needed better than Ultimate Compound?
Is M80 better for single stage paints because it's diminishing abrasives and more oils? I already have Ultimate Compound, but haven't used it yet and if don't use it on this car, I will use it on clear coat cars if needed.

Thanks,
James

[Murr1525]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

Q2. What's the best LSP for this paint, mainly durability and secondly look/color/depth: M21 2.0 or NXT 2.0 or Ultimate Wax?
- NXT 2.0 It's essentially the consumer version of M21 2.0 and will not work at high speeds or temperatures.
- M21 2.0 Just like NXT, on single stage red, it might look like plastic wrap (Saran Wrap / cling film). Also, M21 is designed so that it can be worked up to a higher temperature, so that it can be used by rotary as well.
+ Ultimate Wax has less polishing elements and will last longer than NXT, but compared to M21, maybe a bit longer than that also. Ultimate is better on darker colours. UW Liquid non-staining on trim. UW is closer to a polish/wax because of its ability to darken paint. No cleaners in it though.
[COLOR=#333333]I copied the above statements from the forum, but don't know if they're definitively true?

Yeah, sounds like the right idea.

Q3. Just curious, why is M80 & M83 if needed better than Ultimate Compound?
Is M80 better for single stage paints because it's diminishing abrasives and more oils? I already have Ultimate Compound, but haven't used it yet and if don't use it on this car, I will use it on clear coat cars if needed.

Mostly for the oils. #80 has a lot of oils in it. UC and #83 have some oils in them, so if #80 didnt work, a test spot with the UC could be done, and see how it goes. It may dry up fast on you, or it may work great.

[jfelbab]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

James, I know you directed these questions at Michael but I'd love to give my impressions as well. Ignore them if you don't want the input.

On my Super Red MR2 I especially like the look of three LSP's. UW liquid, #25 and M301. All darken the color and add a glow not seen in NXT or M21. I have several bottles of the latter that I use on lighter colors but the medium red just glows with the three aforementioned. When I would show my MR2, I'd have people standing in line asking what I use, as the glow was almost florescent. When I took it to my Toyota dealer for service there is always a crowd of onlookers. M21 and NXT are excellent at reflecting light but IMHO, the deep dark glow looks better on this color. This is just my personal opinion, of course.

As to M80/M83/M07. M80 is pretty oily and does negate somewhat the need for M07, yet the 07 seems to be absorbed by aging ss paint and may help to keep it alive longer so I used to use it regularly. I also would use it on top of my LSP just before a show where the oily nature of 07 made the paint look fresh and wet. After the show I'd QD and reapply my LSP. I never found that I needed M83 on this SS paint.

I find UC to be much more aggressive than M80 or #205. This ss paint is so soft that there is little need to use overly aggressive products to achieve stellar results, IMO.

If I'm mistaken on the aggressiveness level of UC here Mike will correct me but I seem to recall that UC was like a 10 on aggressiveness and M80 and M205 were around a 4. M105 is like a 12 on that scale. M205 and M80 are much more finishing polishes but this SS paint is so soft as to make it really effective at removing any marring.

I also might add that the foam pads I used were much less aggressive than I'd use on a CC paint. One of the things I loved with this paint is it's easy correction.

[James McEwan]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

jfelbab,

Thanks for your input. However isn't your car a re-spray in clear coat? Therefore any comments regarding the detailing of that wouldn't apply to mine. It would be great if you were talking about detailing your car if it was factory super red, or even the original crimson red?

BTW, I don't think there is any "#25", you probably meant to state M205 or M26. I don't think there's a "M301", you probably meant to state D301 Finishing Wax, which is for the microfibre DA system and not suited to single stage paints, it's more for clear coats and harder coats.

Ultimate Compound doesn't have a cut rating as it's consumer line, also shown in my second post of this thread. You are maybe thinking of M105 Ultra-Cut Compound which has a cut of 12/12. M80 must be worked until diminished to get the true benefits, whereas M105 can be done in 1 or many passes until it's about to dry up, as it's SMAT (non-diminishing) and for a lighter cut, you can weight it lightly. Even if UC were to have a cut rating, it wouldn't be as high as 10, it would be more likely to be between M205 (4/12) and M01 Medium Cut Cleaner (7/10), you could guess 6, but Meguair's don't give cut ratings for consumer line. Cut ratings are usually rated for machine application and you can't give the same rating for a consumer line product that may typically be applied by hand.

BTW, M80 is a 4/10 and M205 is 4/12 and yes M105 is 12/12, also shown in my second post of this thread.

Thanks for your input, as I've spent many many hours reading past posts for knowledge and tips, I'm now really hoping now for Michael Stoop's professional Meguiar's view.

[jfelbab]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

jfelbab,

Thanks for your input. However isn't your car a re-spray in clear coat? Therefore any comments regarding the detailing of that wouldn't apply to mine. It would be great if you were talking about detailing your car if it was factory super red, or even the original crimson red?

BTW, I don't think there is any "#25", you probably meant to state M205 or M26. I don't think there's a "M301", you probably meant to state D301 Finishing Wax, which is for the microfibre DA system and not suited to single stage paints, it's more for clear coats and harder coats.

Ultimate Compound doesn't have a cut rating as it's consumer line, also shown in my second post of this thread. You are maybe thinking of M105 Ultra-Cut Compound which has a cut of 12/12. M80 must be worked until diminished to get the true benefits, whereas M105 can be done in 1 or many passes as it's SMAT (non-diminishing) and for a lighter cut, you can weight it lightly. Even if UC were to have a cut rating, it wouldn't be as high as 10, it would be more likely to be between M205 (4/12) and M01 Medium Cut Cleaner (7/10), you could guess 6, but Meguair's don't give cut ratings for consumer line. Cut ratings are usually rated for machine application and you can't give the same rating for a consumer line product that may typically be applied by hand.

BTW, M80 is a 4/10 and M205 is 4/12 and yes M105 is 12/12, also shown in my second post of this thread.

Thanks for your input, as I've spent many many hours reading past posts for knowledge and tips, I'm now really hoping now for Michael Stoop's professional Meguiar's view.

Yes my car is now a respray but I was speaking of my experience during the years it was single stage in my comments. The car is now 20 years old and for the first 15 years it was SS. I fought with aging ss paint for several years.

I was referring to M26 which is if course Hi-Tech Yellow Wax. This LSP leaves a great dark glow to solid red paint. Sorry for the typo, and yes I was referring to D301 the finishing polish/wax. D301 was not around when my MR2 was still single stage but it has a good look on the super red cc paint now. Although it is CC'd now, I'd venture it would look pretty decent on the old SS paint as well. It has done a nice job on a ss black 95 Lexus for me.

FWIW, here is a list of product aggressiveness I picked up here on the forum:

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?28407-Aggressiveness-Order-for-New-Consumer-Products-This-will-surprise-you!&highlight=aggressiveness+list

And here is a list complied on another forum:

http://www.autopiaforums.com/forums/machine-polishing/32242-updated-polish-comparison-chart.html

And another:

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/automotive-care-and-detailing/422906-abrasives-chart.html

As you can see, UC is slightly less aggressive than M105 and much more aggressive than many other products including M83. Granted much depends on the application method and pads used.

Good luck with your MR2.

[bmrfan]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

When I purchased my '89 BMW E30-S52, the original red single stage paint was very neglected by the previous owner - moderate oxidization and moderate swirling.

I did an experiment comparing #7, Color-X, #80, #205, & UC on the trunk lid - (YES - I know #7 doesn't have any cutting ability but the paint was oxidized and I was curious to see much #7 by itself can "restore" the paint).





My observations...

- #7 (by itself) really helped make the paint much deeper red but left "splotchy" areas and did not remove any swirls (PC 7424XP setting 3 with Black Finishing Pad)
- Color-X had a much more consistent red color and slight reduction in swirls (DA set on 3-4 with Black Finishing Pad)
- #80 had a very consistent red color and removed 70-80% of the swirls (DA set on 5 with Yellow Polishing Pad)
- #205 had similar red color as #80 but removed 80-90% of the swirls (DA set on 5 with Yellow Polishing Pad)
- UC had similar red color as #80 and also remove 80-90% of the swirls (DA set on 5 with Yellow Polishing Pad)

I ended up applying #7 before using #205 (Mike Phillips has an excellent write-up on this technique). By "pre-treating" with #7, I found I could work the #205 much longer.

HTH

[James McEwan]

Re: Solid Single Stage Red - Best products to use with a DA (G110v2/G220v2) ?

Hi bmrfan,

Thanks for your photo comparison. It's a pity they weren't all tested under the same application method, as I'm sure ColorX would have preformed better, such as if it had of been applied with the polishing pad. It's the whole apples and oranges again.

Though comparing the other products applied in the same way, the Ultimate Compound really stands out, so I'm surprised thatvyou didn't go for that and follow up with SwirlX.

As Michael stated and I now agree, my car isn't as heavily oxidized and so would not really benefit from using M07 as a first stage product.