M100 & MF finishing pads

[mohebmhanna]

I have seen some of you guys used M100 with MF finishing pads; the question I have:
1- What are the advantages of M100 over M205 with MF finishing pads?

2- In one of pervious thread; it said that M100 with Rupes Bigfoot/MF finishing pad will take out 3000 grits and finish down very nicely with high gloss? Is that can be down with Meg G110v2 or flex DA.

Thanks

[mohebmhanna]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

Any feedback!!

Thanks

[Detailing by M]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

the rupes, fles and the g110 are 3 different mech.
and no the g110 won't do what the rupes will
the flex might but not the same way as a rupes. the flex is just a forced rotation da and not a long through like the Bigfoot

[mohebmhanna]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

I appreciate you feedback, but my question was that is M100 & MF finishing pads on Meg g110 and flex 3401 VRG will give different results from M100& MF finishing pads on Rupes 21/15mm.

[Detailing by M]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

Yes

[Christopher.Brown]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

I have seen some of you guys used M100 with MF finishing pads; the question I have:
1- What are the advantages of M100 over M205 with MF finishing pads?

2- In one of pervious thread; it said that M100 with Rupes Bigfoot/MF finishing pad will take out 3000 grits and finish down very nicely with high gloss? Is that can be down with Meg G110v2 or flex DA.

Thanks

M100 scale of cut is pretty much the highest level of cut for a compound in the industry.. its the same SMAT abrasive as in the M105, which is meant for moderate to HEAVY defect removal. If you are looking at removing these sorts of defects, stick to the MF cutting pad.

Whereas M205 is a finishing polish, which is meant to finish very fine marks and such, its the perfect finish to M100 or M105, and has a much lower level of cut, while still utilizing non diminishing SMAT abrasives.

M100 does finish down very nicely, sometimes allowing process to go directly to LSP. However, as with everything, this is the culmination of many TECHNIQUE factors and not solely the product itself.

[Detailing by M]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

I cut with 205 and a finishing pad on my Bigfoot all the time, that's the differance between useing a "long throw" DA.
The Bigfoot has changed the way compounds and polish works.
And 105 is the strongest cut, not 100.

[greg0303]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

@mohebmhanna: What type of car polisher do you have/ do you use ? It would help us to determine the best combo for you. The total cut depends on many factors and one of them is a tool used.

Another aspect is what type of defects you go against and desired final results (maximum gloss, total defect removal, quick gloss restoration).

Technically, M101 Foam-Cut Compound is the most aggressive in Meguiar's arsenal.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

I have seen some of you guys used M100 with MF finishing pads; the question I have:
1- What are the advantages of M100 over M205 with MF finishing pads?

All else being equal - same tool, same speed, same pressure, same pad, same work time, same paint - M100 will provide a lot more cut than M205 will due to the nature of the abrasives in both. By far the largest variable in all of this is the paint, and in some cases M205 on a microfiber pad is all you need to achieve the level of correction needed. But that's usually on paint that is not very hard and defects that aren't really severe. Usually.

2- In one of pervious thread; it said that M100 with Rupes Bigfoot/MF finishing pad will take out 3000 grits and finish down very nicely with high gloss? Is that can be down with Meg G110v2 or flex DA.

Thanks

Again, it really depends on the paint. We have seen 3000 grit sanding marks pull out quite easily with the G110v2, microfiber cutting disc and D300, let alone M100/M101/M105. But we also know of paint where that combo would definitely take longer to accomplish the same feat. Because of this wide variety of paint hardness we don't broadly recommend a traditional DA buffer (Meguiar's G110v2, Porter Cable 7424XP, Griot's 6", etc) for removal of sanding marks. In many cases they can, but in many cases they can't. Imagine the frustration of someone who wet sands in the belief that they can easily pull out those sanding marks with their traditional DA buffer only to discover that the paint is too hard to allow for it? Now what? The car, or parts of it, have already been sanded and you're stuck.

The tall stroke of the Rupes 21 gives a whole lot more cut to a given product/pad combo than the shorter stroke of a traditional DA. The forced rotation action of the Flex 3401 does much the same thing, but the user experience is very different on that tool simply because of the direct drive nature of it. The Flex 3401 is essentially a rotary buffer with a built in wobble to the pad (and spinning in the opposite direction of a rotary) which accounts for it's cutting ability without creating a rotary type swirl. Both tools provide a lot more punch than a traditional DA, which explains their ability to take M205 to a much higher level of cut than what you normally associate with a finishing polish. Even so, M100 is still going to give a lot more cut than M205 will on these tools, but you may not need it depending on the level of defects and the hardness/softness of the paint.

Lastly, let's look at the overall aggressiveness of a few compounds mentioned in this discussion. M100/M101/M105 are ALL rated a 12 on our cut scale but they were developed for very different and very specific processes. None of those, by the way, included microfiber pads on a tall stroke DA buffer. Again, as a testament to the versatility of these three compounds, they all cut like mad on that tool/pad combo, and they all can leave a very nice finish in the process. Depending on the paint and the user's technique.

I can tell you from very recent personal experience that technique alone can have a huge impact on all of this. Just two days ago I had the great honor of working with Derek Bemiss of Detail Werks (Barry Meguiar's personal detailer) to prep the 1939 Bugatti Type 57C "Prince of Persia" car at the Peterson Museum. We were both using M205 on microfiber finishing pads and the Rupes 21, speed 4, light pressure, to remove some pretty nasty scratches from the finish (single stage paint applied in the late 1980s). This combo was removing the bad scratches quite easily but it was also hazing the paint quite a bit. Not horrible, but enough that in this case we could not simply correct and go to wax - we needed an intermediate polish step. And then something a bit odd happened: I came across a deeper scratch that needed a bit more aggression to remove, so I upped the tool speed to 5 and put more pressure on the pad. I wiped off the residue and the scratch was gone, but more importantly there was virtually no haze at all. I showed this to Derek and we were both blown away. I could replicate this on other panels by keeping both the speed and pressure up a bit. Not a lot, just a bit. Derek couldn't quite get the same result, which was very puzzling because we were using all the exact same components - tool, speed, pressure, pad, liquid. And then we noticed one other subtle difference. He was using three small drops of M205 for every section, but I was using three smaller drops of M205. In fact, I was using about half the amount of M205 he was. When he changed the amount used, his haze was virtually gone as well. Don't get me wrong here; this is not me saying I was doing something better than Derek was. Remember, I stumbled onto this somewhat by accident in the course of removing a specific defect. Neither of us would have guessed that such a subtle difference in quantity of product used could make such a big difference. On most cars, this small difference in product wouldn't mean a darn thing. Zip. Nada. And one might naturally assume that you'd get more haze, not less, by using more speed and more pressure. It sounds backwards, but in this case it was a problem solver. Ah, the joys of paint polishing.

[Christopher.Brown]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

Just two days ago I had the great honor of working with Derek Bemiss of Detail Werks (Barry Meguiar's personal detailer) to prep the 1939 Bugatti Type 57C "Prince of Persia" car at the Peterson Museum. We were both using M205 on microfiber finishing pads and the Rupes 21, speed 4, light pressure, to remove some pretty nasty scratches from the finish (single stage paint applied in the late 1980s). This combo was removing the bad scratches quite easily but it was also hazing the paint quite a bit. Not horrible, but enough that in this case we could not simply correct and go to wax - we needed an intermediate polish step. And then something a bit odd happened: I came across a deeper scratch that needed a bit more aggression to remove, so I upped the tool speed to 5 and put more pressure on the pad. I wiped off the residue and the scratch was gone, but more importantly there was virtually no haze at all. I showed this to Derek and we were both blown away. I could replicate this on other panels by keeping both the speed and pressure up a bit. Not a lot, just a bit. Derek couldn't quite get the same result, which was very puzzling because we were using all the exact same components - tool, speed, pressure, pad, liquid. And then we noticed one other subtle difference. He was using three small drops of M205 for every section, but I was using three smaller drops of M205. In fact, I was using about half the amount of M205 he was. When he changed the amount used, his haze was virtually gone as well. Don't get me wrong here; this is not me saying I was doing something better than Derek was. Remember, I stumbled onto this somewhat by accident in the course of removing a specific defect. Neither of us would have guessed that such a subtle difference in quantity of product used could make such a big difference. On most cars, this small difference in product wouldn't mean a darn thing. Zip. Nada. And one might naturally assume that you'd get more haze, not less, by using more speed and more pressure. It sounds backwards, but in this case it was a problem solver. Ah, the joys of paint polishing.

Great story, thanks for sharing Senior Stoops.

This is why I often say Detailing is so, so much like poker. To truly improve your craft you MUST immerse yourself in the work, refining every little detail, over and over and over again. But more importantly you must establish a social community for yourself of similarly enthusiastic friends and peers so that you may discuss and flesh out processes and ideas. This is best done with people at, and above, your level. This way you can talk, work, and experiment together, approaching things at different angles that one person alone may completely discard. To do this one must have a sense of openness and understanding [and humility] that they can learn something from anyone at anytime. Of course to do this you have to be FIRMLY grounded in the fundamental aspects of what you are doing. After you are there, you HAVE to constantly be pushing yourself to improve and refine your technique in the slightest of ways, while consistently discussing the processes and refinements with those peers.

If anyone has watched or read about the most famous sushi chef in the world, Jiro One [whos 87 and still works like a 30yr old], they can learn that in even doing simple things, ultimate refinement of technique is the secret to proficiency, speed and quality in EVERYTHING.

In my life have found that in all of the most successful people i have met, and that's been in MANY varying endeavors, share three fundamental character traits:
1] They are always eager to learn about varying methodologies than the ones they use.
2] They want to learn, and harbor an enormous level of focus.
3] And, probably most importantly, they are super driven for the passion of the work they do.

Anyway, i know its off topic..... but i thought it was critical to note how two highly accomplished guys are open to learning and refining a craft that they already excel at. And in doing so they inadvertently learn something, EVEN in a process they themselves have both done thousands of times before. [all that while working on one of the rarest and most expensive cars on the planet]

[mohebmhanna]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

The 2 cars working on:
1- Nissan Maxima black
2- BMW jet black

[mohebmhanna]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

Mike thanks for you're great article, lots of information.
i would like to ask this what is the best approach for using M205 with MF finishing pad with Rupes 21 to remove swirls and minor scratches. How many passes with pressure and no pressure. In know from my won experience with jet black with the above combo it will create a kind of hazing and from my understanding you faced that situation with your recent project. What an intermediate polish step you used and recommend for jet black and also what pads too. Also, what LSP will look glossy and deep on jet black yellow 26 carnauba wax or ultimate wax. Thanks for all your great help.

[greg0303]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

Jet Black + DA Microfiber Correction System:
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...t-Black-BMW-X3

M205 + rotary buffer:
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ice-quik-shine

Quick gloss using Ultimate Polish:
http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...lish-Flex-3401

[mohebmhanna]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

Thank you Greg, the cars looks great.

[greg0303]

Re: M100 & MF finishing pads

Thank you. I just wanted to show you different options.