Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

[armeliusc]

Hello,

I have an 2004 black Civic that I want to do some work on. As long as I have it it has had wax on it, so the paint condition is not terrible. In the past I haven't been very diligent in claying or detailing though, mainly just wash then apply gold class wax 2-3 times a year. As with many older cars there are many small imperfections on the paint, some spray/watermark, etc, although as far as I can tell only very minimal swirl.

Last weekend, I claybar-ed the trunk panel until it's really clean (smooth), then used Meg's Cleaner Wax (red bottle) on it, then applied Ultimate Wax. I don't really like the result. I can still see defects on the paint; it seems the cleaner wax didn't do a good job. More after, although initially UW makes the car look wetter, it seems to streak easily even after a day or two. Whenever I touch it I can see my fingerprints on it. And it looks easily dirty and dull with just little dust after few days. I don't remember this issue with Gold Class Wax. It's just seems less glossy.

So maybe I did things wrong. Could it be that UW didn't bond with the paint correctly because I had the cleaner wax under it ? I don't know.

Anyway, now I am trying to redo the works and deciding which way to go. After lots of reading recommendation and searching forum online, it seems that I can do either one of these:

Go with all Ultimate product route (this seems to be recommended by Meg's and Meg's support):
A. Start over with U. compound, then U. polish, then U. wax
OR,
B. Start over with M20. It seems that M20 combines step 2,3,4 and use synthetic sealant also.

The nice thing about B is that it's a much shorter step, and I guess much less work. It seems that M20 is highly recommended for dark colored cars (a.g. Amazon reviews, etc). My concern with A, other than it's a long process, is the abbrasiveness of Ultimate Compound compared to M20. I am only going to work with hands (no power tools, I'm not confident enough to use it), but I am afraid of marring the clear-coat, paint, etc if it's abbrasive.

So, which choice would you experts recommend ? Which one would be the most durable / provide the longest protection ?

One more thing, I am thinking to probably either top either one of those with Gold Class wax or M26 hi-tech yellow wax to add more depth to the color. Necessary or not ? Or should I just spray GC quick detailer to make it easier, or even GC spray wax ? If I do any of that, will it negate the Sealant protection (provided I let it cure for 24 hours).

Thank you very much for any advise.

[Ghawk]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

Hi and welcome to the forum!

its very nice to see that you have taken good care of you car throughout your ownership. But as you know, unless you are incredibly attentive everytime you wash or touch the car, scratches will build up during its life time. I can tell you understand what swirls and the such are, and to restore the gloss back to the paint you must level back out the finish.
A cleaner wax is a very very mild abrasive mixed in a protective sealant of some kind. Most swirls and scratches cannot be removed by just cleaner wax alone.

To to answer your questions:

Stepping up to Ultimate Compound and Polish is the right route, but understand, achieving a flawless finish with abrasives on clear coat paint is quite a skill. If you want a perfect or even just greatly improved finish I would buy a DA Polisher.

The reason I don't recommend the one step polish and wax is that in reality it is nothing more than a more aggressive cleaner wax. Working by hand would also very much hinder its effectiveness.

For protection (sticking in the meguiars line) your best bet it the Ulitimate Wax. It does require a very clean and thin application. And an attentive removal, but it's durability and protection are incredible. It doesn't have nearly as many fillers as Gold Class wax this is why your finish might not be as deep, but Gold Class can not compare to UW's protection.

Hope I answered some of your questions! I'm just sitting in study hall and saw your post.
Have fun, and once again welcome to the forum!

Griffith Hawk

[Murr1525]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

Last weekend, I claybar-ed the trunk panel until it's really clean (smooth), then used Meg's Cleaner Wax (red bottle) on it, then applied Ultimate Wax. I don't really like the result. I can still see defects on the paint; it seems the cleaner wax didn't do a good job. More after, although initially UW makes the car look wetter, it seems to streak easily even after a day or two. Whenever I touch it I can see my fingerprints on it. And it looks easily dirty and dull with just little dust after few days. I don't remember this issue with Gold Class Wax. It's just seems less glossy.

The A12 Cleaner/Wax is really just a chemical cleaner, so removing dirt, not going to do much for swirls. If anything, might pull the dirt out so they show up more....

The two products should work fine together, though the GC Wax may have been applied a little heavy.

Go with all Ultimate product route (this seems to be recommended by Meg's and Meg's support):
A. Start over with U. compound, then U. polish, then U. wax
OR,
B. Start over with M20. It seems that M20 combines step 2,3,4 and use synthetic sealant also.

The nice thing about B is that it's a much shorter step, and I guess much less work. It seems that M20 is highly recommended for dark colored cars (a.g. Amazon reviews, etc). My concern with A, other than it's a long process, is the abbrasiveness of Ultimate Compound compared to M20. I am only going to work with hands (no power tools, I'm not confident enough to use it), but I am afraid of marring the clear-coat, paint, etc if it's abbrasive.

As noted, the M20 wont really help your swirls by hand, or at least not likely. By machine, maybe.

However, to remove swirls, the product will need to be abrasive, and you will need to remove some paint to level everything out, and thus remove the swirls.

Working by hand really *****... I would at least look at the DA Power System, that is the drill attatchment. Even if you want to wax and polish by hand, getting just the swirl removal products would be a real time saver.

So, which choice would you experts recommend ? Which one would be the most durable / provide the longest protection ?

Well, the Ult. Wax would be the most durable wax, so you would want your precess to end with that, if that is the goal.

One more thing, I am thinking to probably either top either one of those with Gold Class wax or M26 hi-tech yellow wax to add more depth to the color. Necessary or not ? Or should I just spray GC quick detailer to make it easier, or even GC spray wax ? If I do any of that, will it negate the Sealant protection (provided I let it cure for 24 hours).

As noted above, if the goal is durability, I would stick with the UW. Using the Ult. Quick Wax after future washes/while drying will also extend the life.

[armeliusc]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

Thanks for the responses. I guess I am still a bit apprehensive working with Ult.Compound by hand, let alone using a power tool of some kind. I'll do a test stop this weekend and probably do a panel if it looks good. It seems that Ult. Polish also has some abbrasiveness ? I wonder if I should just polish instead of compound, then polish and end up cutting too much.

I looked at the DA power system and I don't think I have the correct drill (I only have cheapo cordless drill), so if I want to go that route it seems that a DA polisher may cost only a little more total. But we'll see how much I can get done by hand this weekend.

I assume if I just leave the car in the garage I can compound it without having to polish and wax it right away ? Thanks again.

[Stephan]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

Thanks for the responses. I guess I am still a bit apprehensive working with Ult.Compound by hand, let alone using a power tool of some kind. I'll do a test stop this weekend and probably do a panel if it looks good. It seems that Ult. Polish also has some abbrasiveness ? I wonder if I should just polish instead of compound, then polish and end up cutting too much.

You should not fear UC by hand. It really takes a machine to remove any but minor defects. If you have any pics of the paint defects in need of correction, it would be most helpful in showing the level of correction you need. I found UC by hand to do basically nothing on my black paint, but put on a DA Polisher, and you can vary the cut to your specific need(s). UP has a little abrasiveness, enough to clean up any marring created by UC and/or very light marring without using UC.

Again, pics would be most helpful.

I assume if I just leave the car in the garage I can compound it without having to polish and wax it right away ? Thanks again.

You are correct!

[Murr1525]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

Working by hand, sometimes a panel a day works out best.

The ult polish has abrasives, but very mild, esp by hand.

[jankerson]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

Thanks for the responses. I guess I am still a bit apprehensive working with Ult.Compound by hand, let alone using a power tool of some kind. I'll do a test stop this weekend and probably do a panel if it looks good. It seems that Ult. Polish also has some abbrasiveness ? I wonder if I should just polish instead of compound, then polish and end up cutting too much.

I looked at the DA power system and I don't think I have the correct drill (I only have cheapo cordless drill), so if I want to go that route it seems that a DA polisher may cost only a little more total. But we'll see how much I can get done by hand this weekend.

I assume if I just leave the car in the garage I can compound it without having to polish and wax it right away ? Thanks again.

Doing it all by hand will be a long hard road depending on how good you want it to come out...

And if the clear coat is hard it would be a very long hard road.

I think you have to decide what you want the outcome to be.

You have the right products already, UC and UP so......

I would really recommend a DA polisher and the yellow pads for the work.

No need to be apprehensive about it as long as you go slow and check your progress.

Watch the videos on how to use the DA polisher and what a section pass is and you will be fine.

Browse the videos also to find out about cleaning the pads etc also.

[97t-bird]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

Just hit it with #20 its a great wax/sealant. I have used it tons....Goes on super easy and off even easier. Worst case, if you don't like the look (You will) top it with UW or go back to Gold Class. The #20 will last a good bit also much longer then GC. but not as long as UW, I have gotten almost as much durability as #21 has with #20. I would venture to say it will only take 30 minutes for you to apply and remove it to an average size car, your not gonna lose giving it a try. One of my favorite waxes....Any questions I would be happy to answer them for you....Greg

If you want to minimize swirls, use new car glaze or show car glaze #5 or #7, by hand. I say minimize as its going to hide. Get a DA if you want to remove anything. I am a huge fan of machine glaze #3 (rotary and finishing pad) super easy and quick. It doesn't correct but gives a great look (I like to use it about 600rpm), no buffer marks either.....

[armeliusc]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

Today I tried to work both UC and UP by hand on the trunk section of my Civic. I could not say I made much improvement, if at all.

I divided the horizontal part of the trunk panel to four sections, and work one section at a time with UC with Foam applicator Pad, as shown in this video from Meg detailing class: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIklU-DjwYs. I worked UC pretty hard, gave a firm pressure on the panel, and made multiple overlapping passes. After a section, I check the result and compared them to the next untreated panel. I could not honestly say I see much of improvement. Some of the defects are still there, some scratches, etc. But I chose to keep going and finish the whole panel. The panel has some fine scratches and not-so-fine scratches (that I could feel with fingernail) and applying UC almost has no effect.

I kept going and apply UP, again, one section at a time. There was probably a bit darkening effect when the treated section is compared to the next, but not by much. And I kept going an apply UP to the whole section.

The whole thing took an hour, just to apply to the horizontal section of the trunk panel of Civic. The video made it look so much easier; almost 1/4 of the whole hood in what, about 4 minutes? Yet I don't see a definite improvement (it started to get dark and I had to stop). I am having doubt to continue this much work on the whole car, without much noticeable, if at all improvement.

From other threads I read, it seemed that Civic paint is notorious for being "soft" and one can easily create those "cheetap spots". So I was careful for not applying pressure only at the end of my fingers. But it seems that if the paint is "soft", why am I not getting noticeable improvement from UC ?

Another impression is that UP is pretty hard to remove sometime, even when the car is pretty cool (about high 50 deg here this afternoon), in the garage. I had to re-apply UP on the dried part and worked pretty hard with microfiber towel to get rid of it.

So for those who said working with hand is pretty hard... I hear you , or am I doing something wrong ?

Thank you.

[Stephan]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

Today I tried to work both UC and UP by hand on the trunk section of my Civic. I could not say I made much improvement, if at all.

From other threads I read, it seemed that Civic paint is notorious for being "soft" and one can easily create those "cheetap spots". So I was careful for not applying pressure only at the end of my fingers. But it seems that if the paint is "soft", why am I not getting noticeable improvement from UC ?

Another impression is that UP is pretty hard to remove sometime, even when the car is pretty cool (about high 50 deg here this afternoon), in the garage. I had to re-apply UP on the dried part and worked pretty hard with microfiber towel to get rid of it.

So for those who said working with hand is pretty hard... I hear you , or am I doing something wrong ?

Thank you.

As I mentioned, UC by hand (smooth foam applicator) did little to nothing on my Black Acura (Honda and Acura paint are the same). On my car, the paint is "delicate" (meaning it mars very easily) but it is difficult (hard) to correct.

You should not fear UC by hand. It really takes a machine to remove any but minor defects. I found UC by hand to do basically nothing on my black paint, but put on a DA Polisher, and you can vary the cut to your specific need(s). UP has a little abrasiveness, enough to clean up any marring created by UC and/or very light marring without using UC.

[jankerson]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

So for those who said working with hand is pretty hard... I hear you , or am I doing something wrong ?

Thank you.

Well working by hand is MUCH harder and will take A LOT longer to see results.

It's NOT like the old days of single stage paint that was a lot easier to work by hand.

Now if you still don't want to get a DA Polisher then try and get some of these:

http://www.autogeek.net/ccs-foam-hand-applicators.html

Although I would still recommend getting a DA polisher.

[Blueline]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

The DA is the way to go, but expensive, especially if you are only using it for your car, and not paint correcting for a living. . If you use it correctly, and are careful in the future, maintaining your vehicle, you may never need it again. Expensive for a tool you may only use once..... So, depending on the condition of the clearcoat, you might get away with a random orbital polisher. I have a 6 inch version, I think was around $30.00 and it works very well at taking out swirls using Ultimate Compound. You have to make a lots of passes and check frequently, but it is a solution that works well for me. UC is a great product, however I would suggest you use it above 55 degrees. I agree with you about Ultimate Polish. It is a real pain to use, extremely difficult to remove, and in my opinion, not worth the price or effort. I won't be using it again, and am not sure what I am going to do with my nearly new bottle of the stuff. Perhaps coat the garden tools...the stuff never comes off. I would suggest ColorX or Black Wax, to follow UC if you need to polish, and then follow with a pure wax of your choice. Ultimate Wax is nice stuff.

[jankerson]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

The DA is the way to go, but expensive, especially if you are only using it for your car, and not paint correcting for a living. . If you use it correctly, and are careful in the future, maintaining your vehicle, you may never need it again. Expensive for a tool you may only use once..... So, depending on the condition of the clearcoat, you might get away with a random orbital polisher. I have a 6 inch version, I think was around $30.00 and it works very well at taking out swirls using Ultimate Compound. You have to make a lots of passes and check frequently, but it is a solution that works well for me. UC is a great product, however I would suggest you use it above 55 degrees. I agree with you about Ultimate Polish. It is a real pain to use, extremely difficult to remove, and in my opinion, not worth the price or effort. I won't be using it again, and am not sure what I am going to do with my nearly new bottle of the stuff. Perhaps coat the garden tools...the stuff never comes off. I would suggest ColorX or Black Wax, to follow UC if you need to polish, and then follow with a pure wax of your choice. Ultimate Wax is nice stuff.

Supposed to not let UP dry before wiping it off.....

Comes off really easy.....

[Blueline]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

Supposed to not let UP dry before wiping it off.....

Comes off really easy.....

I know. I can read the directions. Still a pain to remove, so my observation still applies (for me) . But thanks.

[jankerson]

Re: Ultimate Products (Compound, Polish, Wax) or M20 for Older Black Car

I know. I can read the directions. Still a pain to remove, so my observation still applies (for me) . But thanks.

I don't really use UP that often personally, I use M205 as it's my go to product..

But the times I have used it it came off very easy for me..