New to this forum

[JoeSip]

Thanks for the opportunity to get some help. First, let me say no one should EVER back their new Corvette out of the garage while angry.
Car - 2013 Corvette Grand Sport
Color - Torch Red
Condition - PRIOR to right side mirror contact with metal garage door roller track, the clear coat WAS in showroom condition. No scratches. No swirls. No defects. Very high gloss.
Issue - Put a horizontal scratch on the mirror housing about 3/8" wide by 1 1/2" long... all the way down to the black plastic housing. (Yeah I know. Nice going idiot).

Took the car to a friend of a friend who 'claimed' to be an 'expert'. Promised no one would ever know there was a scratch when he was finished.

Long story short. Got the car back. Paint match was perfect. However, the clear coat had a haze look. Upon closer inspection using a 'sun light' I could still see numerous micro scratches. Took the car back. He used 2000 grit and then 3000 grit wet sand paper. Them 3M compound and then 3M polish... TWICE MORE. I could STILL see micro scratches. During the compounding and polishing there were several splatters of the product he used that landed on the roof, entire door panel, part of the hood, half of the front fender and half of the rear fender. Before I could stop him, get grabbed a dry microfiber cloth and started wiping the splatters off the car. Yep, micro scratches every where he wiped.

Took the car back home and washed it as I always do. First I rinse off any dust with clean water. Then use a liquid car soap and a soft split bristle brush allowing only the weight off the brush to pass over the clear. After rinsing, I use a leaf blower to dry off the car. Put the car out in the bright sunlight. That's when I saw the entire clear coat now had micro scratches every where. Wanted to puke. My guess? He never rinsed off the car BEFORE he washed it. Assuming shop dust covered the car and when he washed it with a hand mitten, he scratched the entire care.

I've researched and found that Corvettes have a very hard clear coat and what types of polishing works for other cars does not work for Corvettes. Contacted a few detailing shops in town and didn't get that 'warm fuzzy' that they knew what they were talking about. Don't want to make this problem any worse by using anyone who is uneducated.

QUESTION - HOW DO I FIX THIS? I want to bring the clear coat back to the original (or better) high gloss finish with no defects or micro scratches. This car represents my last 'toy' in this life... well maybe my last.

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide. Since I'm new here, don't know if I've posted this in the correct place.

[The Guz]

Re: New to this forum

First off welcome to MOL. Could you post a photo to see the damage?

[h_bomm]

Re: New to this forum

First off, to MOL! Wow what a terrible, gut wrenching story! Do you have a machine to buff or will you be working by hand? I'm pretty sure you first post has to be in the "Introduce Yourself" heading, but this would probably be better suited for the "Detailing 101" area instead. No biggie. First I would suggest to not use a brush to wash your car anymore unless it was maybe a boars hair brush. Most people here use a microfiber mitt of some sort to wash their car. I would also suggest using 2 buckets to wash your car, one for your soap solution and one with clean water to rinse your mitt in. Also use Grit Guards in your buckets. This will prevent you form dipping your mitt in the dirt at the bottom and scratching your car with it. I'm sure we can get this taken care of, just sounds like some improper technique may have put some swirls in it. Don't worry, no one here will judge you or make fun of you, but we will help you get that vette looking like new again!

[JoeSip]

Re: New to this forum

The Guz - Will try to get a photo when the sun comes back out... and I figure out how to post said photo here. Don't know how to upload a photo from my HD. What I can say is that I can't see the micro scratches on a cloudy day or when the vette is in the garage. They only show up in bright sunlight reflecting at and angel to the car. The scratches are very slight yet very noticeable in the sun... and thanks for the 'welcome'.

[JoeSip]

Re: New to this forum

First off, to MOL! Wow what a terrible, gut wrenching story! Do you have a machine to buff or will you be working by hand? I'm pretty sure you first post has to be in the "Introduce Yourself" heading, but this would probably be better suited for the "Detailing 101" area instead. No biggie. First I would suggest to not use a brush to wash your car anymore unless it was maybe a boars hair brush. Most people here use a microfiber mitt of some sort to wash their car. I would also suggest using 2 buckets to wash your car, one for your soap solution and one with clean water to rinse your mitt in. Also use Grit Guards in your buckets. This will prevent you form dipping your mitt in the dirt at the bottom and scratching your car with it. I'm sure we can get this taken care of, just sounds like some improper technique may have put some swirls in it. Don't worry, no one here will judge you or make fun of you, but we will help you get that vette looking like new again!

Thanks h_bomm. Been using that split bristle brush since I got this vette back in March. Never had any scratching issues. What I THINK happened was when the auto body shop washed the car with their microfiber hand mitt, they didn't wash off the compound dust with cleat water FIRST. As for the mirror housing, I can still see the sanding scratches. I'm thinking they just got lazy and didn't finish the job properly.

What I didn't mention was that when I took the car home, the drivers side floor mats and door looked like the flour fairy sat in it. White dust foot prints on the carpet and white shoulder/arm prints on the door. Seems quality control 101 in this shop was never studied.

No machine. Looking for advice and knowledge so I know better the next time. A way to quiz the next shop about what they know before I let anyone touch it. Thanks for the "terrible, gut wrenching story" comment. Think I'll go puke again.

[h_bomm]

Re: New to this forum

What I THINK happened was when the auto body shop washed the car with their microfiber hand mitt, they didn't wash off the compound dust with cleat water FIRST. As for the mirror housing, I can still see the sanding scratches. I'm thinking they just got lazy and didn't finish the job properly.

Hmm, sounds like shoddy work and TLC (total LACK of care)! They obviously seem to not care about proper washing technique. Well, since it seems you may have hard clear on your car I would invest in a DA (Dual Action) Polisher. They are easy to use and unlike a rotary, you have very little (almost no) chance of burning through your clear coat. Not sure what your financial situation is and to be honest it's none of my business, but I got my buffer, a Meguiars G110v2 for about $150 off of amazon, just to give you an idea. There are other brands, but the Meg's is the one I chose. After you get the hang of things, you probably won't take your car anywhere again and keep it looking good yourself! Read up on some of the articles in the Frequently Asked Questions, How To Articles/Videos, and other stuff, lots of good info here. You are definitely in the right place!

[Daniel Kinder]

Re: New to this forum

to MOL JoeSip
I've only worked on one vette and it was black at that, it stayed most of it's life in the back and only got out of the garage once in a bluemoon and that was one of the most sensitive paints I've ever work on. Everything I did scratched the paint and every product I had wasn't helping but that's another story. I come across an article awhile back about how hard corvette's paints were but scratch sensitive, so I went and found it to post up a link on to maybe help you out alittle. Written my Mike Phillips...

I posted this after buffing out a 2010


Camaro Clear and my take...



I've buffed out a number of these cars since then and from my experience I've found the paint to be hard but still polishable just like I state in my article above.

A long time ago, back in 2002 when I first joined CorvetteForum, I found all the in-house detailing gurus on that forum ALL talking about howSOFT the clear paints were being used on modern Corvettes.

What I discovered was the age-old problem of confusion.

The guys over there were confusing scratch-sensitive with softness. They thought the paint on their Vettes was soft because it scratches easily.

Clearcoat paints can be very hard and still scratch easily, it's called scratch-sensitive.

I'm glad to say there's a lot less confusion over the hardness factor on Corvettes now days.


I actually have a section on paint hardness and softness and the issues of how it's gauged in my how-to book. What it says in my book is that it's hard for a person that's new to machine polishing to gauge paint hardness because the only way to gauge paint hardness is to first buff on a lot of cars, that is a wide spectrum of paint with a wide range of hardness and softness.

Only after a person has experience buffing on both extremes are they able to "easily" do a Test Spot and then categorically state whether the paint in front of them is hard... or soft...

How else would one know for sure without experience?




__________________
Mike Phillips - Director of Training

[The Guz]

Re: New to this forum

Here's how to upload photos.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?60104-How-To-Inserting-Images-Creating-Photo-Albums

[JoeSip]

Re: New to this forum

h_bomm - Think this shop excelled in 'TLC' (Total Lack Of Care). The original scratch repair wasn't a high dollar job and probably why they rushed it. My financial condition is better than most (paid cash for the vette). I'd like to say I can't perform the work myself because of an old football injury. In fact, I can't perform the work myself because of an old war injury, that and I'm just getting old. Seems all of my cervical discs are shot, so polishing, scrubbing and even brushing (my teeth) is painful. I need to find the right shop/person who knows what the hell they are talking about and takes pride in their work to fix this issue.

The Guz - Thanks for the info. Uploaded a few pics of the vette just after I got it. Taken around April/May 2013. Will try to get pics of scratches when the sun ever decides to come back out. Will do the best I can and post.

stang_krazy - Another piece of the puzzle explained. Thank you. My education in this matter is critical so I technically know AT LEAST as much as the person who's gonna put hands-on to fix this problem.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: New to this forum

Sorry to hear about the paint issues with your car, Joe, but this is actually fairly straightforward to correct all by yourself. You will need to invest in a decent buffer, something like our G110v2 dual action polisher, and the appropriate pads and liquids. On your Vette we would not hesitate for a moment to use our DA Microfiber Correction System with D300 Correction Compound and then finish with M205 Ultra Finishing Polish on a foam pad, and top off with your favorite wax or sealant.

The odds of you doing anything at all negative to your paint with this tool are extremely slim to none. You really have to try to damage the paint with a DA, and even then you probably won't succeed in causing any damage. To further your education on these topics, we recommend you read this article on using a DA buffer, and this article on the specifics of using the DAMF System.

A final thought on paint hardness/softeness/touch sensitivity/etc: what you've heard about the paint on C6 Corvettes is essentially true in that it tends to be fairly hard, meaning it tends to be somewhat resistant to the whole correction process. This is why we are recommending the DAMF System rather than more traditional foam pads and more typical compounds. But at the end of the day, it's still just paint, and whether that paint is hard or soft, delicate or stout, on a Corvette, a used economy car or the $15,000,000 Bugatti "Prince of Persia" we detailed at the Petersen Museum back in October, it's still just paint. The overall process really doesn't vary, but your technique will. In your case, having paint that is most likely harder than "normal" is probably a good thing. Really soft and delicate paints are a real pain to work on because your technique becomes super critical as almost any thing you touch the paint with will easily mar it. Hard paints usually just require a much more aggressive approach, which tends to scare off people new to the process. But as long as you use common sense and continually think about what you're doing, it's actually pretty straightforward to correct.

[JoeSip]

Re: New to this forum

Michael Stoops - Many thanks for the help and education. This issue reminds me of the first time I jumped out of a plane from 15,000 feet (free fall). Taught well. When I executed the jump, I was so cautious in the turns, I missed the DZ and nearly landed in the trees. But I did make a perfect two point landing. Both feet hit first, then landed on my butt.

After reading the links in your response, I have no doubt my brain will and does understand it. The issue is with my physical capacity when using my arms/neck/back muscles to that extent. I'm using all this knowledge to quiz a potential detail person to determine their actual technical knowledge before turning the vette over to be fixed. When I find that person I will direct him to your links and request he uses the DAMF System. BTW, getting old(er) really suxs.

Again, many thanks to all. Any other suggestions/education would be appreciated if needed.

[h_bomm]

Re: New to this forum

I'm using all this knowledge to quiz a potential detail person to determine their actual technical knowledge before turning the vette over to be fixed. When I find that person I will direct him to your links and request he uses the DAMF System..

Good idea getting some knowledge to make sure your next shop does a good job. I would imagine most shops are going to use a rotary buffer instead of a DA though so most likely they won't be using the DAMF System, heck they may not have even heard of it! If you next shop uses a rotary, make sure before you leave that they didn't put any holograms in your paint. Sorry to hear of your pain issues as well, I've had my share of back problems and it is crippling. Mine were just disc inflammation though, not near as bad as you have it. Take care, good luck, and many, many thanks for your service!

[JoeSip]

Re: New to this forum

Good idea getting some knowledge to make sure your next shop does a good job. I would imagine most shops are going to use a rotary buffer instead of a DA though so most likely they won't be using the DAMF System, heck they may not have even heard of it! If you next shop uses a rotary, make sure before you leave that they didn't put any holograms in your paint. Sorry to hear of your pain issues as well, I've had my share of back problems and it is crippling. Mine were just disc inflammation though, not near as bad as you have it. Take care, good luck, and many, many thanks for your service!

Holograms!? Think I'll go puke again.

Did find a guy in town who seems to have passed the 'quiz'. All he does is restore Corvettes and Harley's. Promised he will restore to showroom quality or I don't need to pay him (such a deal). Compound, swirl remover, polish and wax entire car - $350. He insists I approve the job in the sunlight BEFORE I take it back. He said he will mask off all glass, plastic and chrome before he starts and remove all the compound splatter that remains in the windshield wiper cove FIRST. Taking the car in Monday morning. Giving him an extra day grace so he's not rushed. 3 days total. What should I be looking for as in a 'hologram'?

All my cervicals are shot. Just about no space between C3 - C4. Did I mention getting old(er) suxs?

[davey g-force]

Re: New to this forum

Below are typical examples of what holograms generally look like:






(Courtesy Mike Phillips)

[h_bomm]

Re: New to this forum

Sorry, kinda hard for me to explain. You will know it when you see it. Actually, I just google imaged "rotary holograms" and it popped right up so look for it there. Sounds like you found a winner though so I doubt it will be a problem! Hope it works out for you!