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  1. #1
    Registered Member LnkPrkSoldier's Avatar
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    looking for highest gloss...

    hey guys. i have a 1987 mercedes benz which was repainted ( not sure of exact color ) about 4 years ago. i think i may keep this car. here is a picture which doesn't do it justice. during light it appears to be a little dull. then i saw what you have all done with orbital buffers and pro products. this picture was taken after being washed and waxed. this weekend i will clay the car and wash it once more. by then, hopefully my orbital will arrive in the mail. what products should i use? mainly im just looking for shine. there are no swirls or defects. i think there is still a clear coat but im not sure how to check.. so yea... i have all this weekend free to clean up the car.
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  2. #2
    Registered Member Mike Phillips's Avatar
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    Hi LnkPrkSoldier,

    To test for a clear coat, get a piece of white cloth like a piece of t-shirt and rub some paint cleaner, or a cleaner wax on inconspicuous area of your car's finish, if you pull the color of your car, there is no clear coat, if the cloth remains white, (or the color of your paint cleaner or cleaner/wax), then you have a clear coat.

    Below is an outline of how to proceed, if you car is swirl free only use the M80 Speed Glaze with your polisher and then go to a wax of your choice.



    Here's the basic order of steps to follow,


    Washing
    Before detailing your car, first do an extremely good job of washing it. Remove all the dirt from all the nooks and crannies. This prevents any small abrasive dirt particle from entering into the machine polishing process and potentially instilling a swirl. Get the Car Sparkling Clean to start with and everything will be downhill after that.

    Claying
    After that clay the car, at least the horizontal surfaces. Again, do a good job of claying to insure you remove all above surface contaminants. The level of gloss you can achieve from your car's finish is mostly determined by how smooth you can make your paint. Claying will make your car's finish as smooth as new glass.

    After washing and and claying the car, and the car is all dry and ready to work on, the first thing you should do is to tape off any parts of the car you want to protect from splatter or prevent getting any product onto. Here's an example of a 1991 BMW taped off for machine polishing.



    Now move onto the cleaning step.


    Cleaning
    Cleaning is different than washing. Cleaning is removing both above surface defects like oxidation and below surface defects like swirls, scratches, etchings, and dirt that has embedded itself under the surface. Choose the appropriate paint cleaner for the condition of your car's finish and your application process. If you're unsure of which paint cleaner or cleaner/polish is right for your car, describe your car and if possible post a picture and we'll be glad to make some recommendations.


    Polishing
    Polishing after removing the defects is typically using a pure polish that is non-abrasive to restore brilliant high gloss and deep, dark reflections. This is an optional step and one best used on medium to dark colored car.

    Protecting
    This is where you apply your choice of wax or paint protectant. Adding a layer or two of wax creates a sacrificial-barrier on your car's paint to protect it and also add shine and gloss. Generally, two thin coats will insure even coverage with a uniform appearance.

    Maintaining
    Maintaining is the use of products like a quick detailer or a spray wax to maintain that "Just detailed look" in-between regular washings, and the regular application of a normal coat of wax.


    Meguiar's always teaches,

    "Always use the least aggressive product to get the job done"

    The idea is to see if you can restore an acceptable finish using the least aggressive product. Starting with a mild paint cleaner or cleaner/polish and testing to see what can accomplished with it is the safe way to learn which product you will need to safely remove the defects. If the first products you try don't do the job, you can always substitute a more aggressive product.

    The most aggressive you can go with Meguiar's products and a dual action polisher is using our #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish and our W-8006 foam pad on the 5.0 setting. Getting any more aggressive than this can cause hazing of the finish and if the defects are serious enough to require a more aggressive product then you should use a rotary buffer or take it to a professional who is experienced with the rotary buffer.


    When it comes to removing swirls and other defects using the dual action polisher, here are two products that work really well,

    #80 Speed Glaze
    #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish



    In keeping with Meguiar's philosophy of using the least aggressive product to get the job done, if you are unfamiliar with these products and/or your car's paint, then always perform "Test Spot" to a small are first before attempting to do the entire car.

    "If you cannot make one small area look good with your prescribed products and process, then you will not be able to make the entire car look good"

    Makes sense huh?

    To do a test spot, start out with the #80 Speed Glaze with a W-8006 foam polishing pad and buff for 3-4 minutes.


    When cleaning paint with the dual action polisher, you want to map out in your minds eye a section or area about 16" square or rectangle, or whatever fit's your car's body panels shape. The idea is you don't want to try to do to much of an area at one time or you will not get good results. The dual action polisher is gentle in it's cleaning and polishing action and for this reason, trying to work on too large an area at one time will not remove enough paint to remove any defects.

    Note: To remove a below surface defect, you must remove some paint until the highest points of the surface are level with the lowest depths of the defect you're trying to remove. This means removing paint. This also means how deep of a defect you can remove is determined by how thick you paint is. Often times you can improve a defect, but not completely remove the defect as to do so would remove to much paint and in the case of a clear coat, expose the color coat and in the case of a non-clear coat finish, you will expose the primer under the color coat. How much paint you can remove is hard to know because you can never know exactly how much working film-build you have to work with. Experience in this area helps a lot and sometimes luck is a factor to. Remember this, light swirls are generally pretty safe to remove, but deep scratches like key scratches etc. you will probably be better off merely improving the way they look so they don't stand out like a sore thumb, the to attempt to completely remove them.

    When using the dual action polisher to remove defects, map out a section to work in your minds eye. Check the speed setting on the variable speed adjuster. For removing defects you usually need to be around the 4.5 to 5.0 setting. Meguiar's never recommends running the polisher faster than the 5.0 setting as these higher speed settings produce an oscillating action that is too violent in it's speed and motion and this combined with time creates heat and the synergy of all these factors will loosen the Velcro material attached to the foam. Keep your speed settings at 5.0 or below.

    After applying some product to your foam pad, (already attached to the polisher), place the face of the foam pad onto the finish and then turn the polisher on. DO NOT turn the polisher on before it has come into contact with the foam pad or your will sling product all over the place and then you'll get to clean the splatter up instead or work on your car's finish. Once you have turned the polisher on, move the polisher around to spread out your product over the area you are going to work. This is important. What you're trying to do here is to spread-out your product so that you have a film of fresh product spread out over the surface you're going to work. THEN begin to work the product against the finish using a slow arm speed, moving the polisher back and forth over the section and overlapping your passes by 50%. You should run the polisher in a couple of different directions, always with overlapping motions, to insure even cleaning over the entire surface.

    Note: The reason you want to spread your freshly applied product out over the section you're going to work is because if you turn the polisher on and immediately begin to work in one place, as you're working the product against the finish the diminishing abrasives are breaking down. As you continue to move around the area you're working, by the time you get to the last portion of the area you're working, you will be using a much less aggressive product than when you started out because all the while the diminishing abrasives have been breaking down. If when you first start out you take a few moments to spread the freshly applied product around over the entire section you're going to work, and then go back to your start point, you will have fresh product ready to be worked into the finish as you move from one area to the other.

    Does that makes sense?

    After you have buffed the area for 3-4 minutes, (how long you buff can be relative to the temperature and humidity in your area, also the type of paint your working on and the amount of product you applied. The important thing is that you buffed long enough to work the product against the finish and have broken the diminishing abrasives down, but you have not buffed to long and buffed to a dry buff. This is something that is hard to explain with a keyboard and a computer monitor and is really something that first-hand experience will teach you), stop buffing, wipe off the residue and inspect the results in two kinds of light, (if possible). If your results look good and are acceptable to you, then repeat this process, (#80 Speed Glaze with the W-8006 foam pad on the 4.5 to 5.0 setting), and after removing all of the residue you can then go on to the waxing step.

    If your results don't look good, and this combination of products is not removing as many of the swirls and scratches as you would like, then try repeating the above to the same test section using the #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish. Use a new clean W-8006 foam polishing pad for this step, or a W-8006 foam polishing pad that you have previously used with the #83.

    Here's a suggestion
    Use a permanent marker to mark the back of your buffing pads with the product number you're using with them so you don't mix different products onto different pads.


    After buffing the test section on the 5.0 setting remove the excess product and re-polish the same area with the #80 Speed Glaze and the W-8006 pad marked and used with this product. Repeat the same procedure as originally outlined for doing the test spot with the #80 above. After you are finished buffing this area, remove the residue and inspect your results again in two kinds of light if possible.

    The goal of coarse is that now your car's finish will look great! and be ready for you choice of wax. If your car's finish does look great and meets your expectations then repeat this 2-step cleaning approach to the entire car. If not then chances are very good to remove the defects and meet you requirements the finish will need to be professionally cleaned and polished using a rotary buffer by an experienced professional.



    Hope this helps...

    Mike
    Mike Phillips
    Office: 800-869-3011 x206
    Mike.Phillips@Autogeek.net
    "Find something you like and use it often"

  3. #3
    Registered Member LnkPrkSoldier's Avatar
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    ok there are no swirls but ill pick it up in case i make swirls... just to be safe. how many times should i apply the speed glaze? think layers? or thick? i heard to work in areas of about 4 sq ft. ( 1/4 of the hood ) is that true? on the very top of the car there seems to be a sort of like.. lines.. but that looks to be a painting defect and not something easy.. ill do my best to take a picture. i don't not have a camera right now. oh and how fast is the 5th setting? i haven't bought the buffer yet ( will practice on another extra piece before i try on the car of course ) are all the settings universal between all? do some only go up to 4 speeds? i saw some with 2900-3200 rpm. is that fine, too low, or too high?

  4. #4
    Registered Member RamAirV1's Avatar
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    For your LSP (after cleaning and polishing), I would use NXT Tech Wax, liquid or paste. What it does to silver paint is unbelieveable.

    RamAirV1

  5. #5
    Registered Member LnkPrkSoldier's Avatar
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    mine isn't silver, just like a smoked tanish silver... very very little silver. ill try it though, ive only heard good thigns from that. what is easier to apply and remove? liquid or paste. any you prefer? ill post before and after picutres

  6. #6
    Registered Member RamAirV1's Avatar
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    I prefer the paste. Easier to use and a little bit deeper shine.

    RamAirV1

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by RamAirV1
    I prefer the paste. Easier to use and a little bit deeper shine.

    RamAirV1

    My car is silver in color and it never been so shinning until NXT paste wax...

    sky8811

  8. #8
    Registered Member LnkPrkSoldier's Avatar
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    thanks, i went to go pick up some #80 but the place closed at 5 so ill have to see tomorrow if he has some. ill post plenty of before and after pictures.

  9. #9
    Registered Member travisdecpn's Avatar
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    Originally posted by LnkPrkSoldier
    ok there are no swirls but ill pick it up in case i make swirls... just to be safe. how many times should i apply the speed glaze? think layers? or thick? i heard to work in areas of about 4 sq ft. ( 1/4 of the hood ) is that true? on the very top of the car there seems to be a sort of like.. lines.. but that looks to be a painting defect and not something easy.. ill do my best to take a picture. i don't not have a camera right now. oh and how fast is the 5th setting? i haven't bought the buffer yet ( will practice on another extra piece before i try on the car of course ) are all the settings universal between all? do some only go up to 4 speeds? i saw some with 2900-3200 rpm. is that fine, too low, or too high?
    Speed Glaze is a polish that you can apply by the G-100, PC, Rotary, or hand. It is meant to be worked until it is almost dry, but still somewhat wet so that it can be removed without smearing. Using the G-100 at the 3rd setting, then moving up to the 5th setting as the polish begins to breakdown yields great results. You should work on about a 2 sq ft area always inspecting your work before you move to the next section. The lines on the top of your car my be a defect that can be removed with multiple applications of speed glaze, or may take a more aggressive approach with #83 DACP. As far as the selection of buffers go, the G-100 and PC are random-orbitals which mean that they both oscillate and spin to prevent buring paint. The buffers that you see with 2900-3200 rpm are rotary buffers, these are a whole different animal, not to be used in the hands of a novice. Sorry for rambling, but I hope I answered your questions.

  10. #10
    Registered Member LnkPrkSoldier's Avatar
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    well yea, but i think i read that you should run the g-100 at the speed of 4.5-5. and how fast is that? rpm-wise? i just bought myself a buffer and should arrive in a week. shipping was expensive. anyways. ill try running the #80 twice or maybe even 3 times on the roof. if that doesn't work, ill try the 83. an if that doesn't work then thats too much work for me. i'd be scared to work on it. Oh and a hello to Superior shine. you work very close to me. maybe one day i can go to see your amazing work one day.

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