Paint Protect

[Super Dave]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

I am new to this forum... just joined today... so forgive me if this has already been answered elsewhere. Does the Paint Protect product offer any protection from UV light. I see a great deal about beading water. I am just wondering if it offers any additional protections such as UV light.

[Jeepster04]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

I've been wondering the same thing. Nice that it beads n such, but I want my paint to be protected from the sun and water spotting. Wondering if the high amount of beading may actually be a bad thing during those quick summer rains when the sun pops right back out. I think the majority of the etching on my paint came from wax that didn't actually protect it very well..

I used Deep Crystal 3 step early on. Good system, but I think the step 3 (wax) was lacking.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

I am new to this forum... just joined today... so forgive me if this has already been answered elsewhere. Does the Paint Protect product offer any protection from UV light. I see a great deal about beading water. I am just wondering if it offers any additional protections such as UV light.

Yes, it does provide UV protection, absolutely.

Welcome to MOL by the way!!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

I've been wondering the same thing. Nice that it beads n such, but I want my paint to be protected from the sun and water spotting. Wondering if the high amount of beading may actually be a bad thing during those quick summer rains when the sun pops right back out. I think the majority of the etching on my paint came from wax that didn't actually protect it very well..

I used Deep Crystal 3 step early on. Good system, but I think the step 3 (wax) was lacking.

The biggest potential issue with quick summer rains is that it's such a gentle rain that the water just sits there - there is no motion of the vehicle to create air flow to move it off the surface, and gravity really can't move water spots off a flat, horizontal surface. Sheeting may or may not be better here as it really depends on just how the rain came down - how heavy, how long, etc. In some cases, where there is enough water, sheeting would likely help to alleviate some of this, but a very light rain will sit in droplets on the paint no matter what, and that may or may not cause some issues. Whether you've got really tight little beads of water, or slightly larger puddles, if you're dealing with an acid rain situation then you've got that low pH liquid sitting on the paint doing what it does that we don't like. If there is heavy mineral content in the water, when the water evaporates those minerals will be left behind regardless, and they can and will etch the paint. And remember, anything that can etch paint can and will get through any wax or sealant in fairly short order. To expect a wax or sealant to prevent that from happening assumes that the wax/sealant is actually stronger than the paint, which obviously it is not.

In an ideal situation a wax/sealant would cause water to totally "wet the surface". That's actually a technical phrase that means the exact opposite of beading. Imagine putting your garden hose on a medium flow and you adjustable nozzle on a fine mist. Aim the nozzle into the air above the hood of your car and let the water flow, simulating a light rain fall. On a properly waxed car this water will land on the horizontal surface and create some very nice beads. A wax/sealant that did a truly outstanding job of sheeting would instead cause this same light mist to make the entire surface wet with a sheet of water - it would totally "wet the surface". On vertical surfaces most of this water would be pulled off the paint by gravity, but again, on a horizontal surface gravity can't pull the water sideways and off the vehicle, so it would lay there in a sheet. This may or may not actually be preferable to beading, depending on your point of view, how you maintain the vehicle, etc. What we do know for sure (and some may not want to hear this) is that such a product would fail miserably in the marketplace. As much as we know that beading alone is not necessarily an indicator of protection (you can apply M07 Show Car Glaze to a finish, spray some water on it and that water will bead like mad, but there is zero protection in M07), the consuming public directly equates beading with protection. If a wax doesn't bead for several weeks, in their mind the wax is gone already and they're not happy. We even see this on detailing forums around the great Interwebs...... someone posts a picture of water on their car that really isn't beading very well and they complain that the lousy wax they applied just a couple of weeks ago is already gone. Rants against the product go dang near viral, and everyone thinks it's junk. We used to hear this all the time with the original formulation of NXT Tech Wax; easy to apply, nice shine, but the junk doesn't last but a week or so and the beading is gone. Save your money and get XYZBoutique Wax instead because it lasts soooo much longer. Uh huh. We wanted NXT to sheet, but the world saw sheeting as failure - even detailing enthusiasts who should know better saw it that way.

Perhaps the ideal would be for a surface that is so incredibly hydrophobic that the contact angle of the beads is so sharp that they literally roll off the paint, even on the slightest deviation from horizontal. It's possible. And expensive. Crazy expensive.

[Marc08EX]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

The biggest potential issue with quick summer rains is that it's such a gentle rain that the water just sits there - there is no motion of the vehicle to create air flow to move it off the surface, and gravity really can't move water spots off a flat, horizontal surface. Sheeting may or may not be better here as it really depends on just how the rain came down - how heavy, how long, etc. In some cases, where there is enough water, sheeting would likely help to alleviate some of this, but a very light rain will sit in droplets on the paint no matter what, and that may or may not cause some issues. Whether you've got really tight little beads of water, or slightly larger puddles, if you're dealing with an acid rain situation then you've got that low pH liquid sitting on the paint doing what it does that we don't like. If there is heavy mineral content in the water, when the water evaporates those minerals will be left behind regardless, and they can and will etch the paint. And remember, anything that can etch paint can and will get through any wax or sealant in fairly short order. To expect a wax or sealant to prevent that from happening assumes that the wax/sealant is actually stronger than the paint, which obviously it is not.

In an ideal situation a wax/sealant would cause water to totally "wet the surface". That's actually a technical phrase that means the exact opposite of beading. Imagine putting your garden hose on a medium flow and you adjustable nozzle on a fine mist. Aim the nozzle into the air above the hood of your car and let the water flow, simulating a light rain fall. On a properly waxed car this water will land on the horizontal surface and create some very nice beads. A wax/sealant that did a truly outstanding job of sheeting would instead cause this same light mist to make the entire surface wet with a sheet of water - it would totally "wet the surface". On vertical surfaces most of this water would be pulled off the paint by gravity, but again, on a horizontal surface gravity can't pull the water sideways and off the vehicle, so it would lay there in a sheet. This may or may not actually be preferable to beading, depending on your point of view, how you maintain the vehicle, etc. What we do know for sure (and some may not want to hear this) is that such a product would fail miserably in the marketplace. As much as we know that beading alone is not necessarily an indicator of protection (you can apply M07 Show Car Glaze to a finish, spray some water on it and that water will bead like mad, but there is zero protection in M07), the consuming public directly equates beading with protection. If a wax doesn't bead for several weeks, in their mind the wax is gone already and they're not happy. We even see this on detailing forums around the great Interwebs...... someone posts a picture of water on their car that really isn't beading very well and they complain that the lousy wax they applied just a couple of weeks ago is already gone. Rants against the product go dang near viral, and everyone thinks it's junk. We used to hear this all the time with the original formulation of NXT Tech Wax; easy to apply, nice shine, but the junk doesn't last but a week or so and the beading is gone. Save your money and get XYZBoutique Wax instead because it lasts soooo much longer. Uh huh. We wanted NXT to sheet, but the world saw sheeting as failure - even detailing enthusiasts who should know better saw it that way.

Perhaps the ideal would be for a surface that is so incredibly hydrophobic that the contact angle of the beads is so sharp that they literally roll off the paint, even on the slightest deviation from horizontal. It's possible. And expensive. Crazy expensive.

Mike,

I'm one of those people - guilty as charged! I've always thought that beading is a sign of protection and the presence of wax/sealant on the paint. So if certain waxes are designed to sheet the water (like NXT 2.0 - didn't know that), how could we tell if there's any wax remaining?

[blackttqld]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

Is there any website that sells this product who ship to Australia?
I have been in touch with Meguiars Australia and they have said they are not ranging it here.
Any help would be much appreciated

[ffboy]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

Mike,

I'm one of those people - guilty as charged! I've always thought that beading is a sign of protection and the presence of wax/sealant on the paint. So if certain waxes are designed to sheet the water (like NXT 2.0 - didn't know that), how could we tell if there's any wax remaining?

And I too am guilty, as well.. I think, the current way to check is if a quick detailer becomes more difficult to spread/remove.

[Jeepster04]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

The biggest potential issue with quick summer rains is that it's such a gentle rain that the water just sits there - there is no motion of the vehicle to create air flow to move it off the surface, and gravity really can't move water spots off a flat, horizontal surface. Sheeting may or may not be better here as it really depends on just how the rain came down - how heavy, how long, etc. In some cases, where there is enough water, sheeting would likely help to alleviate some of this, but a very light rain will sit in droplets on the paint no matter what, and that may or may not cause some issues. Whether you've got really tight little beads of water, or slightly larger puddles, if you're dealing with an acid rain situation then you've got that low pH liquid sitting on the paint doing what it does that we don't like. If there is heavy mineral content in the water, when the water evaporates those minerals will be left behind regardless, and they can and will etch the paint. And remember, anything that can etch paint can and will get through any wax or sealant in fairly short order. To expect a wax or sealant to prevent that from happening assumes that the wax/sealant is actually stronger than the paint, which obviously it is not.

In an ideal situation a wax/sealant would cause water to totally "wet the surface". That's actually a technical phrase that means the exact opposite of beading. Imagine putting your garden hose on a medium flow and you adjustable nozzle on a fine mist. Aim the nozzle into the air above the hood of your car and let the water flow, simulating a light rain fall. On a properly waxed car this water will land on the horizontal surface and create some very nice beads. A wax/sealant that did a truly outstanding job of sheeting would instead cause this same light mist to make the entire surface wet with a sheet of water - it would totally "wet the surface". On vertical surfaces most of this water would be pulled off the paint by gravity, but again, on a horizontal surface gravity can't pull the water sideways and off the vehicle, so it would lay there in a sheet. This may or may not actually be preferable to beading, depending on your point of view, how you maintain the vehicle, etc. What we do know for sure (and some may not want to hear this) is that such a product would fail miserably in the marketplace. As much as we know that beading alone is not necessarily an indicator of protection (you can apply M07 Show Car Glaze to a finish, spray some water on it and that water will bead like mad, but there is zero protection in M07), the consuming public directly equates beading with protection. If a wax doesn't bead for several weeks, in their mind the wax is gone already and they're not happy. We even see this on detailing forums around the great Interwebs...... someone posts a picture of water on their car that really isn't beading very well and they complain that the lousy wax they applied just a couple of weeks ago is already gone. Rants against the product go dang near viral, and everyone thinks it's junk. We used to hear this all the time with the original formulation of NXT Tech Wax; easy to apply, nice shine, but the junk doesn't last but a week or so and the beading is gone. Save your money and get XYZBoutique Wax instead because it lasts soooo much longer. Uh huh. We wanted NXT to sheet, but the world saw sheeting as failure - even detailing enthusiasts who should know better saw it that way.

Perhaps the ideal would be for a surface that is so incredibly hydrophobic that the contact angle of the beads is so sharp that they literally roll off the paint, even on the slightest deviation from horizontal. It's possible. And expensive. Crazy expensive.

This is such an awesome post. It covers so many aspects of a wax/sealant, many of which I've always wondered about.

Im amazed how cheap the 365 is. I got a bottle shipped to my house for $7.xx. Not sure how its so cheap?? How expensive is 'crazy expensive?'

Mike,

I'm one of those people - guilty as charged! I've always thought that beading is a sign of protection and the presence of wax/sealant on the paint. So if certain waxes are designed to sheet the water (like NXT 2.0 - didn't know that), how could we tell if there's any wax remaining?

Another things Ive always wondered. Be cool to have some sort of small hand held device that would tell you a %. Hold it on the paint and it shows such and such % is left.

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

Mike,

I'm one of those people - guilty as charged! I've always thought that beading is a sign of protection and the presence of wax/sealant on the paint. So if certain waxes are designed to sheet the water (like NXT 2.0 - didn't know that), how could we tell if there's any wax remaining?

How do you tell? You wait for ffboy to make a comment like this:

And I too am guilty, as well.. I think, the current way to check is if a quick detailer becomes more difficult to spread/remove.

Yep, that's generally the easiest way to tell if there's any wax left; once your quick detail spray becomes a bit more difficult to remove, that's a good indicator that your wax is fast approaching depletion.

This is such an awesome post. It covers so many aspects of a wax/sealant, many of which I've always wondered about.

Im amazed how cheap the 365 is. I got a bottle shipped to my house for $7.xx. Not sure how its so cheap?? How expensive is 'crazy expensive?'



Another things Ive always wondered. Be cool to have some sort of small hand held device that would tell you a %. Hold it on the paint and it shows such and such % is left.

You got Paint Protect delivered for about $7? Sheesh, that is cheap! Hang on while I got talk to our marketing dept about raising the price of this product. Or would you guys prefer I not do that????

As for the "crazy expensive" remark made previously, how much money you got?? Look, we all know that there are waxes on the market that are priced at $1000 or more, and in some case, a lot more. Only a very tiny percentage of that big jump in price is raw materials, while a larger part is due to economies of scale (or lack thereof, in these cases) as the products are produced in very low volumes. And a very large part is marketing, the aura of exclusivity, perhaps even plain old hype. Most of the very expensive waxes on the market are pure beauty waxes and don't provide any more protection (and certainly no more durability) than any other wax on the market. So, the "crazy expensive" remark was not in reference to that kind of high priced product, but rather to the cost of raw materials that will actually provide specific characteristics (extreme contact angle hydrophobic action, multi year durability, etc) and the manufacturing processes needed to manufacturer the product. Then add in the R&D dollars to create the product; not just to create a basic product with those ingredients, but to create such a product that is actually easy to work with for someone who hasn't gone through some sort of manufacturer's training program to use the stuff. In discussions with our chemists, they've said they can do all sorts of crazy things if budget is taken out of the equation. But who's buying $1000 waxes? And how many more people would spend that kind of money if the wax - actually, let's call it a "protectant" now since "wax" is probably not the correct terminology for such a product - if the protectant actually performed to such a high level? It plays into that whole law of diminishing returns sort of thing. A C7 Stingray offers, on paper at least, virtually all the performance of a Ferrari F12 Berlinetta, but at less than 1/3 the price. Chevy also sells a lot more Corvettes than Ferrari does F12s, and Volkswagen sells even fewer Bugatti Veyrons. And, yes, the Veyron is certainly faster than an F12 but at what - 7 times the price??? As you approach the extreme high end of anything, very tiny performance gains come with almost exponential cost increases.

Speaking of really expensive stuff, you can buy instruments that can measure film thicknesses of waxes, sealants, coatings, etc. It's tough to get enthusiasts and even some pro detailers to spend $400 on a really good paint thickness gauge though, let alone the few thousand dollars they'd have to spend on something that will read how much wax is on the paint. It is infinitely cheaper to just go out and wax the car again!! Besides, think about how wax degrades over time (and this goes for synthetic sealants and even the current crop of advanced coatings): the key word is "degrade". These products, once applied to the paint, break down slowly over time and with exposure to the elements. You don't apply a wax on January 1 and it's suddenly gone on March 1, even though it was all still there on February 28 (or 29, depending on the year!). And since different areas of a car experience different levels of exposure, a wax will degrade at different rates on different areas of the car. Sure, having a tool that could read all this would be cool. OK, I'll admit it, it would also be fun. But would it really be all that useful? Or make any sort of economic sense? A paint thickness gauge makes all kinds of economic sense - a $400 investment (or less, if you shop around a bit) can save you from having to spend $1000 or more to repair damage due to over sanding or polishing a car. Multiple cars, in fact. But to read how much wax is left? Let's be honest here; if you forget to wax your car after three months and do it instead at the four month mark, nothing horribly expensive is going to happen. Nah, just go out and give your car some love, and apply a fresh coat. That's fun, too!

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

Is there any website that sells this product who ship to Australia?
I have been in touch with Meguiars Australia and they have said they are not ranging it here.
Any help would be much appreciated

We see this is your first post, so welcome to MOL!

Technically, nobody really should be shipping product to any country where we have a partner in place who imports for us. And that's not just a Meguiar's stance, but pretty common throughout any industry. But it does happen and we obviously can't police every reseller of our product. Most resellers don't want to deal with this sort of long distance selling for liability reasons. If a seller ships a $10 product half way around the world and something goes wrong and a warranty claim comes up, they are on the hook for it. No company in the world who does not export a given product to a given country will honor a warranty on that product - that even includes automobiles. So that reseller is on the hook, and they don't want to deal with the expense of international shipping costs that they can never recoup.

That said, if you find someone who is willing to ship this product internationally, then so be it. If you have a friend/acquaintance in the US who is willing to take delivery and then ship it to you, so be it. Hopefully there will be enough positive buzz about this product that Meguiar's Australia will decide to import it, but that decision is there's based on a variety of factors in that market. We don't force product on our international partners.

[Eldorado2k]

Hi Michael, speaking of paint thinkness gauges, is there a chance of a new 1 to upgrade the current model in the Meguiars garage for 2015?
[Not the wax measuring 1]

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

Hi Michael, speaking of paint thinkness gauges, is there a chance of a new 1 to upgrade the current model in the Meguiars garage for 2015?
[Not the wax measuring 1]

I believe the one in our training garage is still good. What did you have in mind? You want us to get one of those really pricey ones that measures individual layers of paint - ecoat, primer, color coat, clear coat?

[Eldorado2k]

If there was ever a place on earth that oughta have 1, The Meguairs Garage in Irvine certainly fits the bill

[Jeepster04]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

Yes sir, autogeek had a 25% off sale with free shipping, no minimum! $7.49 shipped to be exact! Waiting till some free time to try it out!

Its a joy reading your posts. Its obvious you know and enjoy your job!

And Most of the stuff I do isnt practical, so why should a wax durability gauge be? Haha

Do I need 40 ratchets? No, but I like them and looking at them makes me happy.

[The Guz]

Re: Paint Protect - 365 Day Durability

^^^ That was a great sale. I got a backorder from Autogeek from that sale. I also spoke to one of the people that works at Autogeek and to quote that person "Paint Protect flew off the shelves". I'm ok with it since I'm waiting for them to ship out my MT 300 that I pre-ordered.