Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

[The Guz]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

The DAMF system is great. Before you go all out just pick up the MF cutting discs and D300. Then switch to foam with a polish. This will give you great results and you can keep GC as your wax.

Based on some of your statements I would recommend this:

-D300 MF compound

-MF cutting discs- Each pack comes with 2. I would say that 2 packs would be all you need. Depends on how much you want to spend on them. Also agree with the comment about having a compressor to blow them out while you are correcting. A brush and cleaning your pad on the fly also works but the compressor is the best way.

-Yellow foam polishing disc

- M205 you can find this locally in a 32 oz bottle

- Sealant - Ultimate wax or M21/NXT. UW will darken the paint more than M21/NXT. NXT/M21 will give that candy coated look just by itself. NXT and M21 are equivalent. Can't go wrong with either one on black paint. I tend to like UW on darker paints.

- Wax - GC or M26 is you want to try something new that in my opinion looks better than GC. M26 can also be found locally.

This will get you great results.

D300 + MF cutting discs can finish LSP ready on hard paints. They cut faster as well with less passes.


There are a few more reviews on autogeek and even on Larry Kosilla's podcast in regards to the foam discs. Larry even has a video when they detailed the retired air force 2 plane with the new foam discs.

Couple more reviews. When Mike Phillips blesses something you know it's a great product.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?62221-NEW!-Meguiar-s-Foam-Buffing-Discs

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?62228-REVIEW-New-Megs-Foam-Discs-Vs-Lexus-ISF-amp-CTS-V-Coupe

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?62889-My-thoughts-on-the-MT300-and-the-new-5-quot-pads

I almost forgot this one. He used UC and UP with the new foam discs on hard paint. This should confuse you even more

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?63015-2013-Ford-F150-Crew-cab-long-bed

Good deal on the foams discs if you change your mind.

Pads & Backing Plate Special
Pad Special - Save an Extra 15%
Use Coupon Code: PADS15

http://www.autodetailingsolutions.net/meguiars-foam-disc-5-inch-bundle.html

[Top Gear]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

Thanks, cfilly and Michael. I'm pretty well confused, or at least, overwhelmed with info I tend to make decisions by surveying the options and pitfalls, so I do appreciate your time as I reason through it.

The MF/Detailer approach seems more of a full step up from what I have, and I like the idea of changing pads and liquids to have an entirely different and "professional", "system" approach. This would allow me to compare a number of my assumptions and kit products. Yet, it impressed me right away with thin foam discs that with one simple change, really just a cutting pad alone, my main spiderweb issue might be solved. I may even try it both ways as full consumer and full professional kits. That also gives me a lot of mixes if I want to try them.

Now, I've searched the forum but couldn't find direct comparisons between D301 and GC/M26 in terms of "cast" or finish, you know, the same way we often compare the "look" of UW and GC, or synthetic and carnauba blends. Historically, my guess is that the D300/301 direction automatically appealed to GC/M26 folks, and that's one aspect helping me make the jump.

[The Guz]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

It is indeed a lot of info. You can't go wrong with the DAMF system or the new foam pads. You could pick up a set of foam pads and then a pack of microfiber cutting pads to see which gives you the best result. I can't recall if anyone has used UC with the MF cutting pads.

The reason I like M26 over any of the other waxes is because it has a high D.O.I (distinction of image) which allows it to bend light. See this link

http://www.autogeekonline.net/forum/hot-topics-frequently-asked-questions/65557-meguiars-26-a-6.html

For speed you could do the DAMF system D300/D301 for now and down the road you can just polish with UP or M205. That's another option.

There's a lot of options and you really can't go wrong with any of them.

[Top Gear]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

Just about ready to purchase from ADS. After going around the trees again and again, for now I'm going to try the MF cutting and finishing discs and D300, D302, and D301, or the DAMF system as intended. ADS has a starter kit you can configure and get a pad brush thrown in. I like their sampler bottles, too, btw.

To seal D301, I was considering M21 or PP365 (watched your videos). But, after re-thinking it, I don't want to top D301 (which is in part a carnauba wax) with a synthetic (non-carnauba) sealant, and then maintain that synthetic sealant topper with GC QW (I know, I could switch to UQW or Xpress, but again, D301 includes carnauba, so GCQW seems perfect to boost).

So, whatever I do to correct and finish, it still has to be maintained, and where I live that means a lot of rain at times, a lot of wild swings of humidity, a lot of beating sun and high heat at times, and then there's the pollen and sap from the forests, as well as the usual grime from actually driving. Sounds like a calling card for a sealant, but sealants don't seem to fit with the whole carnauba concept. Besides, "50 washes" worth of durability can be exceeded in just a few weeks of rain, washing, and maintenance where I live. In effect, I've been using QW as a short-term carnauba sealant of sorts, and certainly a booster. I'll try it for now. My new setup would be:

- Porter Cable with W67DA (or DBP5)
- 5" MF cutting pad using D300
- 5" MF finishing pad using D302 if/as needed
- 5" MF finishing pad using D301 as LSP
- remove/buff by hand using MF towels
- maintain/boost with GC QD & QW
- wash with GC shampoo
- re-wax as needed with D301

What could be simpler?

[The Guz]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

You can mix and match spray waxes. It won't hurt anything. I would recommend M21 over PP365 any day of the week. The price for the 12 oz sampler on ADS is hard to beat. You can use it down the road on your next polishing session.

Just so you know D302 has no abrasives in it. The finishing disc is doing all the work.

[Top Gear]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

Well, I'm not interested in using two or more quick waxes, or mixing a lot of various lines and approaches and tests, etc. A small part of me enjoys that, but mainly I just want a solution that works. I thought I had this stuff figured out well enough until I realized I'd outgrown those foam pads.

You seem far more entertained testing these products and combos than I That's good, though, because you're able to share your extensive findings (I'd like to see some of your tests on black/dark paint, out of curiosity). I've only used a limited amount of Meguiar's merch by comparison, and I also tend to focus more on refining my regimen, limiting the endless options and confusions, such as I explained regarding synthetic sealants.

All that is another way of saying thanks for all your suggestions, Michael, even if I didn't follow many of them! It still helped me figure out what I needed to try next

[The Guz]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

You seem far more entertained testing these products and combos than I That's good, though, because you're able to share your extensive findings (I'd like to see some of your tests on black/dark paint, out of curiosity). I've only used a limited amount of Meguiar's merch by comparison, and I also tend to focus more on refining my regimen, limiting the endless options and confusions, such as I explained regarding synthetic sealants.

I had to LOL at this statement. You can search for my threads to see my other work. I was giving you info on combos that simply work that I have or others have used.

All that is another way of saying thanks for all your suggestions, Michael, even if I didn't follow many of them! It still helped me figure out what I needed to try next

I kind of knew you wouldn't but hey we all make our own choices. Let us know how this works out for you.

[Top Gear]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

Gee, learn how to take a compliment, dude I've read your other posts, and I already trusted that your suggested combos (and those from Michael Stoops and Mike Phillips in other threads) would work very well before you even responded to this thread. I simply don't have the time or interest to test multiple combos. I wanted pad recommendations and came away with the best choice for me based on my desires to stay with the carnauba approach. I also had a number of other questions which you more or less ignored, but I addressed them reading other threads.

[Jarhead0754]

I agree with the guzs approach. U can't just say get these pads and use this compound, Polish, or wax. Every car is different so pad and product is different. The variables are so different. But easiest way is to just stick with the meguiars products. The mf disc or the new thin disc pads.

Plus we can't say what will work best with what u got as we only have what ur telling us and not hands on so we can only guesstimate. Fix is very knowledgable and is just trying to help u as much as possible. As u can see not to many other people chimed in cuz they prob agree with him.

[The Guz]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

Let's be up front and clear. You and I don't get along. I took the opportunity and my time to help you out or point you in the right direction when I really didn't have to. Eldorado came in and sounded a little harsh but I stand with what he posted.

I agree with the guzs approach. U can't just say get these pads and use this compound, Polish, or wax. Every car is different so pad and product is different. The variables are so different. But easiest way is to just stick with the meguiars products. The mf disc or the new thin disc pads.

Plus we can't say what will work best with what u got as we only have what ur telling us and not hands on so we can only guesstimate. Fix is very knowledgable and is just trying to help u as much as possible. As u can see not to many other people chimed in cuz they prob agree with him.

Well said and thank you.


To add to this. You were asking for foam pad replacements which you were given. Now I pushed you towards foam because microfiber is an aggressive method and not always needed. Plus a microfiber cutting disc can leave it's own defects behind. As always the least aggressive method and test spot is recommended. But you should already know that since that is constantly preached here on the forum. Based on what you posted, you have already used UC and scratchx so who knows how much paint has already been removed. Especially with the burgundy soft buff pad, which was always frowned upon when using it with a compound such as UC due to the marring it created. It always comes down to technique and not the products.

I get that you are a carnauba guy. Like Mike Philips says, find something you like and use it often. Well I guess in hindsight you're at least trying something a little different.

[davey g-force]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

Now, now guys... let's keep it civil

[Michael Stoops]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

Now, now guys... let's keep it civil

Yes, well said Davey.


I'm not quite sure how this thread started going a big sideways as I didn't really see anything inflammatory or argumentative anywhere in here. Then again, I also know that it can be very difficult to interpret tone and subtext on a forum, especially when the various parties involved don't know each other personally. Overall, though, there has been great information shared here, great tips and advice given. Having said that though, advice is just that - advice. It's a recommendation based on experience of the one giving the advice. This does not mean that the person receiving said advice must adhere to it, though. I think we all understand that, right?

Please, let that be the end of that part of this discussion. Please.



I would like to summarize a few things here:

TopGear, the improvement in performance you will find by moving from the older Soft Buff foam pads (especially if worn out) to the new DA Thin Foam Discs is pretty astounding. The burgundy foam alone is a total game changer. The only carry over from the old burgundy pads to the new burgundy discs is the color. Literally, that's it. The foam itself is clean sheet of paper design. Where the old burgundy foam would commonly haze paint when used on a DA, the new burgundy foam tends to finish out beautifully, even on softer paints. And it cuts like crazy!! Speaking of haze, that's one of the potential downsides of the DAMF System on softer paints - the DMC5 cutting disc and D300 can create a lot of haze on softer paints. It tends to be pretty phenomenal on harder paints, but that haze can be bothersome and/or surprising on soft paints if yoiu're not ready for it. Looking at the pictures of the swirls in the Genesis Coupe it's doubtful that the DAMF System is really needed, even though it may well do a spectacular job. Without knowing how hard or soft, how delicate and touch sensitive this paint is or isn't, it's hard to say exactly which process would be best on this car - DAMF or Thin Foam Discs. My experience with both processes on a wide variety of paints, coupled with the shown defects, tells me that I would start with the Thin Foam Discs. And that's coming from someone who is a huge fan of the DAMF System!

As you know, our goal here at MOL is not to get you to buy everything we make, so we're not going to recommend that you purchase both the DAMF System and the Thin Foam Discs with a different mix of liquids and then just stick with the one that works on your car. Our goal here is to help guide you to a process that will yield the best results with the least amount of work. It's far too easy to get really, seriously confused by everything in our lineup so we like to try and distill things down. For the professional user who has his hands on a huge variety of cars as a matter of course, having a wide variety of products available makes sense - not all cars are the same, not all customers want the same end result. But for an individual who's just taking care of his own vehicle(s) there is rarely a need to have a cabinet full of different products. As a hobbyist it might be fun, but it's not really necessary.

Michael and Ric were giving advice based on their broad experience, and just as both of their initial recommendations echoed each other, my initial recommendation does as well. I know that you've great things about the DAMF System and are intrigued by it - I think that's great because, well, it is a great system! It was a huge step up in correction ability over more typical foam when it was first introduced. It will still outperform most foam when the going gets really tough. But I don't think the going is that tough on this Genesis. And the new Thin Foam Discs, being a huge step up, should be more than up to the challenge. And they're easier to work with than the microfiber in that you don't need to blow them out constantly to clean them on the fly. That is mandatory with microfiber discs.

So, really, to address your original concerns, and what you've reiterated with this comment:

Well, I'm not interested in using two or more quick waxes, or mixing a lot of various lines and approaches and tests, etc. A small part of me enjoys that, but mainly I just want a solution that works. I thought I had this stuff figured out well enough until I realized I'd outgrown those foam pads.

I'm willing to bet that you would absolutely LOVE using the new Thin Foam Discs in the following scenario:

Defect Removal: DFC5 burgundy foam cutting disc with M100 Pro Speed Compound (my current go-to compound) at speed 5 on your DA
Gloss enhancement, surface refining: DFP5 yellow foam polising disc with M205 Ultra Finishing Polish (pretty close to magic in a bottle!) at speed 4
Wax application: DFF5 black foam finishing disc with Gold Class Carnauba Plus or M26 High Tech Yellow Wax (you're a carnauba fan and those are both awesome on black paint) at speed 3



Oh, you had mentioned removal issues and the re-introduction of swirls:

I'm also thinking my removing wax by hand is re-introducing spiderwebs, or perhaps it's removing so much product they are uncovered again. That is, when I compound thoroughly enough the surface can be near perfect, swirl-wise. Then, once I polish it thoroughly, the surface really is perfect, stunning, swirl-free. Then, I apply the wax with the DA, wait at least 20 minutes and start removing. Because the cloudiness and blotchiness requires a LOT of removal and buffing, and more removal and more buffing, it can seem like I wind up back where I started with these spiderwebs, albeit with a freshly waxed finish to the paint from all the product. Maybe a finishing disc of some kind is in order? Maybe I need MF pads, or even an orbital?

Wax removal should never require a lot of removal and buffing; it should be super easy. But applying too heavy can indeed cause this, and if you have to work hard at it, and your paint is pretty touch sensitive, and your towels are not the best, then you most certainly can inflict fresh marring during the removal process. But removing wax by machine is even more aggressive and will actually remove more wax than you really want to remove. A car the size of your Genesis Coupe can be sufficiently covered with roughly one ounce (yep, one, single ounce) of Gold Class, M26, NXT Tech Wax, Ultimate Liquid Wax, etc. Allowed to dry fully any of those will wipe off with almost no effort. For the record, D301 Finishing Wax is almost unreal in its ease of removal. It was, in fact, designed to be a single wipe removal - if applied nice and thin.


By the way guys, the Porter Cable 7436SP that TopGear is using is the exact same tool as the 7424XP. Porter Cable sells the same tool packaged with different accessories, and it's those varying accessories that determine the part number. The tool itself is identical whether it's a 7424, 7436 or at least a couple other part numbers they use.

[Top Gear]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

Okay, so...let's move on. Below are some results...

I'd already had on order the DAMF system. I got all three discs, all three liquids, and some supreme shine towels. ADS threw in a pad brush. Yesterday, it all arrived and I tested it all, again basing my technique directly on the Meg's videos primarily, but I tried it on another car/project (not pictured). Today, I did some tests on the Black Beauty

My impressions exceeded my expectations! The products, the discs and liquids, are obviously professional and well-designed. I smiled when D300 smelled like UC and D302 like UP, and D302 polishes much like UP, without the mild abrasives, of course. D301 has that purple candy smell, which is also nice. I like the logo embossed on the pads and when I saw them, it clicked in my mind that the thickness (or thinness) is the deal here. From working on the other car, I decided to use the following combos, believe it or not:

- D300 with Xtra Cut Disc, PC speed 5 (mainly)
- D302 with Cutting Disc, PC speed 4 (mainly)
- D301 with Finishing Disc, PC speed 3

So, this first shot is from before, just for reference on the "metal"-flake in this paint:

Now, in this next shot, I've ONLY done the D300/Xtra Cut step, with 4 passes. By "passes" I mean, a product load, and I'd work over an area 5 times around or more, up/down, across, etc, then I'd stop and wipe clean, amazingly, with one wipe! That's a "pass" to me. I'd then brush if needed, reload with decreasing amounts of product, and go at it again. 3 passes were generally enough (for now), with the 4th being spot hits with no extra product:

With that near perfection, I then finished up with the D302/Cutting combo with 2 passes. Before you say anything, I know that's the "wrong" pad, but I surmised this would be akin to UP, polishing with a very mild abrasive. Then, at last, D301 on the finishing disc, using precious little product, was mind-blowingly easy to remove (now I know why you guys were confused by my wax removal question, as this stuff clears off with literally one wipe! woo-hoo!). Clearly, you can see how swirled the untouched side was (top of shot, notice the tape line), and keep in mind, that untouched side was only "corrected" again about 2 weeks ago with many passes on the old "1.0" foam pad and UC (oh, the fool I was before):

You can also see by this point that the overall finish is not very different in terms of polish and carnauba. However, the "distinction of image" is amazing, and the swirls are gone, perhaps 99% gone at this point (note again the tape line showing the untouched side below the Sun), but I have to say, my previous setup was no slouch in creating a beautifully polished finish...it just left swirls behind. Anyway, you can see how great the new result is. After this point, I repeated the steps for the rest of the trunk and another test area before dark:

So, depending on weather (we seem to have a sub-tropical depression threatening the area), I'll try to finish the whole car and post some finished shots. I hope these few pics illustrate how difficult my paint seems to be to work on. Heck, I'm using two aggressive combos you guys don't actually recommend (D300/Xtra/5+, D302/Cutting/4+) with 4 compound passes, 2 polish passes, and there are STILL stray swirl marks to be found.

Let me also note that I picked up a cheap ($12, Ozark 150 lumens) LED "trail" light for inspection, which works great, although The Sun is the Chief Inspector Also, BTW, these photos have only been downsized, and I've put a little unsharp mask on them.

Anyway, I do appreciate all the advice, and while I'm sure the thin foam discs would have worked just fine, I'm sublimely pleased with the DAMF system I'll post more shots when I have something to show...

[davey g-force]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

Good stuff, glad it's working out for you.

[Eldorado2k]

Re: Need Pad Recommendations for PC 7436SP

I'm happy for you & the results you were able to achieve. You certainly deserve it.

That being said, boy you sure compounded the heck out of that paint eh? Lol. Now you better not self inflict anymore swirls from this day forward. No excuses! Lol.

And now that you've gotten it swirl free, only use the finishing discs for any D302 polish and D301 wax applications.. Seriously, it'd be wise to go with the least aggresive method possible for future maintenence on your paint.

Just curious, how much of the car were you able to get done during your 1st day of this?