Pictures from May 9, 2015 Advanced Class
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Pictures from May 9, 2015 Advanced Class

          
  1. #1
    Sr. Global Product & Training Spec Michael Stoops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    21,402
    Rep Power
    1138

    Pictures from May 9, 2015 Advanced Class

    Saturday's Advanced Class was the first such class where most of the participants were already pretty experienced with the rotary buffer. Wet sanding, however, was still new to them so there was plenty to learn!

    As usual, we spent time with both hand sanding and DA sanding, and the differences in technique between them.

    Although this picture may say otherwise, this is not a "contest"!


    As a first go, not bad. But the overlaps could be tighter, which comes with practice.


    Hand sanding in two directions; one for the first cut, the second for the finer cut to take off the tops of the sanding scratches from the first cut. The idea is to refine the surface as much as possible, while taking off the least amount of paint.


    DA sanding; while similar to DA polishing, you don't use anywhere near the level of pressure when doing this. Pad rotation, overlapping strokes, back and forth motions are all the same as used when polishing with a DA.


    Nice uniformity of sanding marks, except for that section in the middle. That's the reflection of the overhead fluorescent lights showing up in the middle of the picture, along with a dirt nib. So why do only see this in the middle? Check the next image below.


    A broader view shows that panel has a slight concave to it so the sanding media was bridging across the lower portion, making only very slight contact with the paint. The mottled appearance is due to only the tops of the texture being sanded, leaving slight reflections emanating from the untouched paint in the low spots.


    A second pass of the same area, using the DA sander from two different angles, removes the texture and evens out the finish. Even very fine, gentle contours can pose issues when sanding.


    Hand sanding into a tighter contour forces you to change things up a bit. The flexible backing pad is curved to better match the radius of the contour. In this situation, a tighter curve on the pad is likely called for, but you can see it's actually lifting off the paint on the side closest to the operator's body. That means the curve of the pad is tighter than the contour being worked on, which is desirable. If the curve of the pad wasn't tight enough, it would bridge over the lower portion of the panel contour and you'd get the same sort of non-uniform sanding shown in the images above.

    Historically we used rotary buffers to remove sanding marks as the DA just wasn't up to the task. Today's technology in both tools, pads and compounds - and even abrasives - is changing the industry dramatically and it's now common to remove those sanding marks with a DA. Here we're using the new MT300 DA buffer, a microfiber Xtra Cut disc, and M100 at 5800 OPM.


    Sand and buff!


    Revealing the gloss after compounding out the sanding marks!


    So what kind of results were the guys getting? This is a "before" shot of the recently painted panel, showing a lot of micro texture in the surface.


    After some sanding (either 1500/2500 by hand or 1500/3000 by DA) and then a bit of compounding and polishing the difference in clarity and gloss is huge!!!
    Michael Stoops
    Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

  2. #2
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Lancaster, CA
    Posts
    169
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Pictures from May 9, 2015 Advanced Class

    Mike,
    How it was removing the sanding marks (1500/3000) by using MT300 DA buffer, a microfiber Xtra Cut disc, and M100 at 5800 OPM compared to the rotary buffer in terms of the speed to remove the sanding mark and the gloss. How many passes are applied to remove the sanding marks by MT300. Thanks

  3. #3
    Registered Member Selectchoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,352
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: Pictures from May 9, 2015 Advanced Class

    Great post! Love the concept of these classes.

  4. #4
    Mr Sparkle davey g-force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    4,304
    Rep Power
    65

    Re: Pictures from May 9, 2015 Advanced Class

    Yes, awesome post.

    Why is it that any time I see or read about DA sanding, an air powered DA is being used?

    Are electric DA's not powerful / torquey enough? Or is it to do with using an electric tool in a wet environment? Or some other reason?

    I wouldn't think that there is enough water to cause any concern, but not sure...
    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    I own a silver vehicle and a black vehicle owns me. The black one demands attention, washing, detailing, waxing and an occasional dinner out at a nice restaurant. The silver one demands nothing and it looks just fine. I think the black vehicle is taking advantage of me, and the silver car is more my style. We can go out for a drive without her makeup and she looks fine. If I want to take the black one out, it is three or four hours in the "bathroom" to get ready.

  5. #5
    Detail Werks Detail Werks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Trabuco Canyon, California
    Posts
    261
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Pictures from May 9, 2015 Advanced Class

    Is that Mad Marvin I see ?
    Detail Werks
    Derek Bemiss
    SEMA/Ford Care Care Team Leader 2004 through 2012.

  6. #6
    Registered Member Selectchoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    1,352
    Rep Power
    25

    Re: Pictures from May 9, 2015 Advanced Class

    IMO, safety is a big factor in the reason why air powered DA's are used in these environments. Even a few drops of water can be a concern when it comes to electricity...

    I've seen a few write ups where electric DA's are shown, but I think in these general educational environments, "best practice" is to use an air powered device.

    Also, I believe electric DA's are generally more powerful than their air powered brothers.

  7. #7
    Sr. Global Product & Training Spec Michael Stoops's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    21,402
    Rep Power
    1138

    Re: Pictures from May 9, 2015 Advanced Class

    Quote Originally Posted by mohebmhanna View Post
    Mike,
    How it was removing the sanding marks (1500/3000) by using MT300 DA buffer, a microfiber Xtra Cut disc, and M100 at 5800 OPM compared to the rotary buffer in terms of the speed to remove the sanding mark and the gloss. How many passes are applied to remove the sanding marks by MT300. Thanks
    If you refine your sanding marks down to 3000 on a DA they will usually come out very, very quickly with the MT300, microfiber pad and M100. Heck, even on pretty hard paint I've done 2500 grit hand sanding and pulled those marks super fast with that combo. The changes in this industry in the past 5 years have been really dramatic, and with advent of more powerful DA polishers, microfiber pads and DA compatible compounds like M105/M101/M100 it's pretty amazing what you can do without using a rotary these days. In fact, the extreme majority of high end detailers I talk to rarely use a rotary any longer because of this.
    Quote Originally Posted by davey g-force View Post
    Yes, awesome post.

    Why is it that any time I see or read about DA sanding, an air powered DA is being used?

    Are electric DA's not powerful / torquey enough? Or is it to do with using an electric tool in a wet environment? Or some other reason?

    I wouldn't think that there is enough water to cause any concern, but not sure...
    Actually, electric DAs tend to have a lot more power and torque (in fact, waaaaay more torque) than pneumatic DAs do. And when it comes to sanding, you don't want a bunch of torque. Also, as Selectchoice points out, water and electricity rarely mix well (Ben Franklin got lucky!!) so pneumatics are just flat out safer. That said, when using our Unigrit sanding and finishing discs you really aren't "wet sanding" in the truest sense of the word. Wet sanding, when using sand papers, involves a lot of water to keep the surface clear of debris, and the abrasive media is designed around that process. The abrasive dics used when DA sanding are actually a totally different technology and a minimal amount of water is used. For a given work area when DA sanding, you're using just a couple trigger pulls out of a spray bottle onto the surface, and maybe one or two on the abrasive disc. You're really just misting it on so danger is mitigated. Still, you need to be very aware of what you're doing and excercise plenty of caution when DA sanding with an electric tool. It's possible, and quite common actually, but you just need to be aware!

    Quote Originally Posted by Detail Werks View Post
    Is that Mad Marvin I see ?
    Yes indeed! He did great, too!
    Michael Stoops
    Senior Global Product & Training Specialist | Meguiar's Inc.

    Remember, this hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need therapy.

  8. #8
    Mr Sparkle davey g-force's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    4,304
    Rep Power
    65

    Re: Pictures from May 9, 2015 Advanced Class

    Thanks Mike

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Pictures from February 21, 2015 Advanced Class
    By Michael Stoops in forum Pictures from Meguiar's Training Garage - Intro to Wet Sanding & Rotary Polishing Classes
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Feb 25th, 2015, 02:49 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •