Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

[DRaider90]

A little while back I posted about trying to make due with a pot luck mixture of tools, pads, and products. If memory serves me correct it was a DeWalt Highspeed, Porter Cable DA, Diamond Cut 2.0, Malco Superduty Compound, Ardex Dark Car Polish, Wool Pad and other polishing pads for the highspeed, Lake Country Orange Medium Cut Pad, Worn out Red Soft Buff Pad, and an knock off Blackoptics based black microfiber cutting disc. This was in concern to commercial detailing out of a VW Dealership. After getting some feedback on here my most cost effective solution (because it was coming out of my own pocket, I couldn't order anything else through my work) was a Gallon of M105 and a gallon of M205. Shortly after this purchase I moved to an Automall with Cadillac, Buick, GMC, Honda, & Kia and the M105/M205 combo worked well across that spectrum of paints. Still stuck with the same DeWalt & Porter Cable duo we made it work. M105/M205 paired with the porter cable DA and a red softbuff pad became our go to system for everything from scratches that needed wet sanding, to removing buffer trails. The DeWalt was retired to carpet brush duty, unless we had a really jacked up car with a full paint restoration we would bring out the wool pad/dewalt/m105 combo and then finish with the porter cable/red pad/m205 combo to remove any swirls.

Now it looks like I have moved on up in the world, currently at a Mercedes Benz Dealership. Our tools/chemicals have upgraded, which is great news. We still have the DeWalt and Porter Cables, but we finally got a Rupes Bigfoot LHR 21 MarkII. And with that MG Microfiber Cutting Discs & Finishing Discs, D300 Compound, D301 Finishing Wax, and D156 Spray Wax. In addition to that we can now order M205, and I was also given a partially used 32oz conatainer of M100 (that I can't order). The D300 works good, but it seems we are leaning to using M100 (even tough it dusts more than the D300) more and more because it seems to cut better than the D300 on the harder Mercedes Benz paint (using the Rupes 21 of course). My M105 and M205 that I purchased while I was still at the VW dealership virtually go un-used, having been replaced by D300 and M100. The M100 will eventually run out, and I will be looking to once again buy something out of my own pocket that will give an extra edge over the D300 and M105 that I still have. The M105 cuts better than the D300 or M100 it seems, but it dusts wayyyy too much so I really don't want to go that route. Should I go with another bottle of M100, or is the extra cutting power of the M101 really worth the extra $$$? I want to do my homework before spending the money on more M100 or a test bottle of M101 (haven't used it yet). Time is money in the commercial detailing business, especially when sales reps bring back sold deliveries and want scratches buffed out etc (on top of the delivery wash) in about an hours time.

So the question is, M100 or M101? Any feedback from those that have used these is appreciated.

[Top Gear]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

When I made this decision, the difference was like $20 between M100 and M101, and both are a lot more aggressive than UC/M105. I read a lot and watched videos, and in the end, it was worth at least $20 for me to know FOR SURE I had the most aggressive stuff Meg's makes. Would M100 be good enough? Probably, but I'd always wonder if I was missing something as I went for pass after pass. Since I got the M101 and use it regularly now, I can't imagine wasting my time with any other compound, including UC/M105, D300, or any other I've used, because they are just not strong enough for true compounding (I still use D300 as a pre-polish). M100 and M101 may be said to be very close in terms of aggression by some, but the consensus is that M101 is decidedly more aggressive. Yes, it's expensive (perhaps egregiously expensive, Meguiar's!), but it is unarguably the best, leaving nothing to mystery. If I can't get at a given defect with M101 on the MF Xtra Cut at full speed, then it's time to put down the machine and start wet-sanding

[Spazzz]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

I used M100 tonight with a LC purple foamed wool on A burgundy Z71. It cut quick but left a haze.
He didn't want to do a 2 step so I opted for FG400 with a orange hybrid which worked great. Final passes were made with speed 2.5 on the Flex.
LSP ready with no haze.

I haven't tried the slow/light pressure final passes with M101 so I don't know if it would finish down the same.
I generally would use M205 after anyway.

But I do know M101 has the edge for quickness in damage control.
M101 is the one I prefer when I am doing a 2 step on neglected cars.

[The Guz]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

Tough choice. Both M100 and M101 work great. I am surprised D300 is not removing the defects just as fast given it's being used on a long throw polisher. But you are correct that M100 will out cut it on those super hard paints. M101 has a slightly higher cut than M100. Both will dust more than D300 on microfiber. How is M100 working on those harder paints? Is it removing all the defects? If it is then I would pick up another bottle of M100. Perhaps you can find someone local to give you a sample of M101.

[DRaider90]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

The M100 is doing good for getting out the defects, especially wet sanding marks (2000 grit). It worked well yesterday on a sap removal on some jacked up black paint (2011 S550). It was very impressive when I put it on the high speed with the wool pad, and did great as a second step on the rupes with the regular cut mf pad.
I still haven't taken taken the time to get a lake country purple foamed wool pad or any Menzerna FG400, both of which I hear are great for cutting. I want to try M101 so I know what I am missing or not missing out also, just not enough money to throw at Menzerna, Meguiars, and Lake Country . I want to try and find a combo that will officially put the high speed out to pasture. I am the only one in the shop really trained on using it, so I would rather get a super cutting combo for the rupes set up so I know anyone can handle it.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

Most users find that M101 Foam Cut Compound cuts slightly more than M105 Ultra Cut Compound & M100 Pro Speed Compound, even though they are all rated at 12 on Meguiar's cut scale. You are correct, M100 Pro Speed Compound is more aggressive than D300 DA Microfiber Correction Compound, but was not developed specifically for the Microfiber Cutting Disc like the D300 was, so you can experience more dust, but for the most part, the feedback is great on M100 Pro Speed Compound applied with our DA Microfiber Cutting Disc, when more cut than D300 is needed.

In my opinion I would try to stay with our complete DA Microfiber Correction System of liquids & pads for your "work horses", which include the DMX5/DMX6 DA Microfiber Xtra Cut Discs, DMC5/DMC6 DA Microfiber Cutting Discs, DMF5/DMF6 DA Microfiber Finishing Discs, D300 DA Microfiber Correction Compound, D302 DA Microfiber Polish, and D301 DA Microfiber Finishing Wax. Especially when you are completing cars in under one hour including wash, in our opinion the design of this system will give you maximum efficiency. There are situations where technicians are applying our DA Microfiber Correction Compound to the entire vehicle without wiping off the residue, and going right over the compound residue with our D301 DA Microfiber Finishing Wax, with good results. Of course for best results, proper priming of the DA Microfiber Cutting Discs are vital as well as frequent cleaning of the DA Microfiber Cutting Discs (with ideally compressed air or a microfiber towel, some use water in a bucket to clean the discs,) but again the above technique is OK by Meguiar's if the situation calls for it, like a very short amount of allotted time.

Again we think our DA Microfiber Correction System will deliver great results & efficiency for your situation, also with the fact that it is easy to train technicians how to use, but as you have found M100 Pro Speed Compound is a great for times when more cut is needed, like very hard paint or isolated deeper scratches.

If you haven't already, we would also consider looking into our S6F3000 Professional Unigrit 3000 Foam Finishing Disc, paired with our S6FI Unigrit 6 Inch Foam Interface Pad. You can buzz through Random Isolated Deep Scratches or an area on the vehicle with a lot of heavy defects with a couple spritzes of water and a couple passes, and our D300 DA Microfiber Correction Compound along with DA Microfiber Cutting Disc typically pulls the sanding marks out easily. More information on this set up here, The Power of 3000 Grit.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask further questions.

-Nick

[DRaider90]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

Thanks for the additional information, some great feedback to consider. I was not aware of the system to use the Unigrit 3000 finishing discs. Currently we do all our wetsanding using the individual sheets of the MG Unigrit paper, which is still a step up from the quite cruddy wet/dry sand paper we were using. Will definitely have to look into that system, sounds like could make our wet sanding process more efficient.

Across the board our system for paint correction at all dealerships is supposed to be D300 compound on the DMC6 pad, followed by D301 finishing wax on a DMF6 pad. We can order those products, and eventually they will be phasing out our other outdated product choices. This is a good base line, but I am always as a Manager looking to give my team (and myself) an edge at our shop. We need that edge considering the unique issues we face with high line customers in a commercial setting. They want private sector quality at commercial pricing and time frames. I would really like to see what a DMX6 pad with M101 will do, only hinderance is I can't order them from my work so it comes out of my own pocket; making me I guess you could say overly picky with my selection.

I told one of my employee's that he needed to cut back on his M100 use (since I can't order it through my work) and start using the D300 more often; and his exact words were "it takes too long to cut and turns the cars pink". In reality the M100 dusts more in my experience but I don't think it's quite as obvious because the light blue of the M100 dust doesn't stand out as much as the pink D300 dust. I wonder though if I substitute a red DFC6 pad (which I have and can order) seeing that it's foam would it cut down on the dusting with the M100? But, would I lose cutting ability or are the DFC6 & DMC6 of similar cutting ability?

We are fortunate to have plenty of compressed air, but still clean up time from compound dust is as important as cutting time. But then I wonder if the cutting combo becomes too powerful will it end up leaving marring that will in turn require more time with a follow up step of polishing. To be perfectly honest when a sales rep brings a delivery back to you saying the customer wants a scratch buffed out, you compound the paint then the sales rep drives off in the car. No time for polish or wax/protectant, they want the customer out of their hair and off the lot ASAP.

I know there isn't a magical compound and pad combo that will cut quickly, finishes down without needing a 2nd step, doesn't dust, and comes in bulk gallons; but there has to be something close that will out perform the DMC6/D300 combo. Thanks again to everyone providing feedback. I look forward to the Meguiars class we will be having early in the new year, maybe it will be of some help also.

[The Guz]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

If D300 is dusting that bad it is either being overworked or too much product is being used. Another is not cleaning the pad often or using at to high of a speed on the DA. D300 produces little to no dust for me even paired with a microfiber cutting pad on a Rupes LHR15 Mark II. I am using it at speed 4. But I am not using it to remove sanding marks.

M100 is good stuff. Why can't you order it anymore?

I agree with Nick on finishing out with 3000 grit.

[DRaider90]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

One I don't think my employee's know what dusting bad means, most have never used M105 which so far dusts the most out of everything I have used. And two he is probably over working the product at times, trying to get too much out of one application. I beat them over the head with a brick about pressure, using only 4 small drops of product on the outer edge of the pad, blowing out pads after every 2"x2" section, and keeping the rupes between 3 & 4 in terms of speed. This is why I really haven't mentioned dusting in past posts, because I know some of it is user error/inexperience on their part.

The reason I can't order M100/M101 is because my company doesn't stock it. Beyond sub contracting commercial detailing for dealerships they also make their own chemicals, so when it comes to stuff they don't make they pick and choose what to stock (basically all the paint care/correction stuff). My area manager is supposed to be talking with the regional manager that does the Meguiars orders for our warehouse so we might be able to get M100 in gallons, but it would only be for our store so I don't know how keeping a plentiful stock of it will work out if that happens.

M100 has proven itself useful on the wool pad/high speed & the microfiber/rupes combos so I really do hope I can start ordering it. At the same time my interest has been piqued about M101 and the extra cut discs as possibly a "secret reserve extra cut combo" for those time pressed wet sanding jobs. It will come out of my pocket so it will stay in my truck, but it will be there for when it's needed. Only down sides of M101 is the price and lack of gallon sizes. I was hopeful a buddy of mine from the VW dealership would be able to hook me up through his Meguiars UK contact on some M101 Gallons but that has yet to see fruition.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

You are very welcome for the information! Feel free to ask as many questions as you would like. Ok so first thing I would like to mention is that you guys should be getting virtually zero dust with our DA Microfiber Correction Compound. This tells us primarily that a lot of product is being used, and secondly we might need to discuss more specifically how you are cleaning the pads. When using our DA Microfiber Correction Compound on our DA Microfiber Cutting disc, the cutting disc should be completely primed for before use. Every little white microfiber should be pink with compound. After the initial priming, only 3 - 4 pea size drops are needed for each 2 X 2 section pass. In regards to cleaning with an air compressor, in case you guys are not already, with the disc on the machine & the machine off, the technician should start at the outer edge of the microfiber disc with the air nozzle, get the disc spinning away from you, and work your way into the center of the disc, blowing it out. I really think these factors can be greatly contributing to your guys not thinking D300 cuts enough. Hope this helps!

-Nick

[DRaider90]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

That is how they were trained, but being 20 something kids that are more worried about money than correct technique they don't get that both go hand in hand. Correct technique can mean less time, which means more money. I personally haven't encountered dusting issues, but I do find sometimes more passes are needed with the D300 than the M100 when removing 2000 grit marks. That is why I am looking at the M100 or M101.

Good news is today I found out that I will be able to order M100 so that resolves the supply issue. But I am always looking for the fastest cutting options so it sounds like I need to try some M101 & an extra cut mf disc as my "secret weapon" for those extra tough jobs. Also will try it on a the red foam soft buff pads to see how that works out considering its designed for foam.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

That is how they were trained, but being 20 something kids that are more worried about money than correct technique they don't get that both go hand in hand. Correct technique can mean less time, which means more money. I personally haven't encountered dusting issues, but I do find sometimes more passes are needed with the D300 than the M100 when removing 2000 grit marks. That is why I am looking at the M100 or M101.

Good news is today I found out that I will be able to order M100 so that resolves the supply issue. But I am always looking for the fastest cutting options so it sounds like I need to try some M101 & an extra cut mf disc as my "secret weapon" for those extra tough jobs. Also will try it on a the red foam soft buff pads to see how that works out considering its designed for foam.

Okkkk this is starting to make more sense, was not aware you were trying to remove 2000 grit hand sanding marks. D300 usually easily removes our UniGrit 3000 Grit Foam Finishing Disc Marks, but 2000 grit hand sanding marks are certainly going to require more cut to remove, especially with a DA, so I can see why your guys like M100. Are you aware you are probably spot leveling the texture in the factory paint when hand sanding with 2000 grit marks?

[DRaider90]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

If we are looking at paint as a series of peaks and valleys, I understand by only sanding the scratch and immediate area I am only leveling that small space and theoretically causing a small "dip" in the clear coat in respect to the panel (since that area now has less clear). Using a makeshift sanding block (the one we have magically disappears) to keep the pressure even we try to make it as even/uniform as possible. It's not quite the same as a proper paint correction leveling the entire panel etc, but the goal is speed of defect removal so corners are cut admittedly (not that I agree with it). So while I have not seen the terminology "spot leveling" used specifically I am presuming that is the correct connotation.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

I understand you are managing the processes in place and it is great to hear that you are trying to improve these processes even when it doesn't sound as though you are being tasked to do so. I'm referring to removing the factory orange peel in the repair area. This would result in the repair area having smooth paint with no orange peel, and the surrounding paint still having the factory orange peel. Again I understand this is the process in place, but you might want to mention the benefits of finishing discs applied via DA sanders which won't remove texture to the powers at be which let you make changes. More info can be found at the following link if needed The technology behind Unigrit Sanding & Finishing Discs.

[DRaider90]

Re: Another Compound Question (M100 vs M101)

I really wish I had the Unigrit Sanding & Finishing Discs today. Had a white Porsche Panamera that came directly from the collision center that needed a complete wet sand & buff (they had done a purple spray paint removal from presumably a really pissed off ex-girlfriend/wife), could have really used it today. Our regional training manager dropped off a partially used gallon of M100 and some more 6" mf finishing discs so I can't really complain I guess. He will be going down with Kevin Brown and Jason Rose for the detailing competition in Florida which I will miss out on, but I will take getting M100 as a win. Just have to get him to hook us up with sanding discs and we will be set....and a mythical gallon of M101...heh.