Small Water Mark & Haze

[alexw32]

The problem with getting a new car is you're over protective over it. On my old car, I stood on the hood once to change the garage ceiling light bulb, no harm done

As mention in the other thread, I had two layers of ULW applied over the whole car. Have been very careful protecting it, spraying bugs off the front fresh and stuff like that, but doing so may have sent some water droplets on to the hood unknowingly.

Today while inspecting my new red vehicle I noticed a few small water marks on the hood near the middle of the windshield, they're very small and faint, the way I saw them was from an angle, was going for the driver door when it caught my eye under the lighting of the garage. Moreover they're adjacent to a haze area that, again, can be seen only at a low angle from the side, standing in front of the car you wouldn't see anything.

Long story short, I tried ultimate detailer, gently wiped the marks, no dice. Sprayed some diluted vinegar on and gently wiped off, didn't work. Lightly hand polished it, still nothing, the haze didn't go either, maybe I didn't work on it long enough. It really bothers me, where did this haze come from when all the other areas are perfectly reflective!

At this point I don't know what to do, should I continue working on the area or let it sit until maybe 2 weeks later?

Cause I got other things in my life and don't have time to attend to it any further. I'm pretty sure the haze and marks appeared after the 2 layers of wax coating. I hope these small amount of water deposit wouldn't etch paint so fast would it?

Due to the angle at which they can be seen, I struggle to get a camera shot of them, which I know would be ideal for assessment purposes.

Still really want to hear some recommendations.

[Scott in Houston]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

Do you have a DA? I'd try using Ultimate Polish first, then go to Ultimate Compound next using a light cutting pad.
Also, what kind of car. Do you have hard or soft paint?

[alexw32]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

No I don't own a DA. Tried hand polishing using UP, but as you probably know working by hand is slow, esp. when UP is not very abrasive.

It's a 2019 KIA Forte, I'd say it's on the soft side, since I can remove light swirls using UP, don't even have to use SwirlX.

[Scott in Houston]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

No I don't own a DA. Tried hand polishing using UP, but as you probably know working by hand is slow, esp. when UP is not very abrasive.

It's a 2019 KIA Forte, I'd say it's on the soft side, since I can remove light swirls using UP, don't even have to use SwirlX.

Ok yeah. By hand I wouldn't expect much help with UP. With that paint, I bet with a DA it would come right out with UP and a light cutting pad.Not sure if you're up for it, but you can pickup a decent DA for home use at Harbor Freight for like $60. Might be worth it over time. Otherwise, find a friend with one nearby.

[alexw32]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

The spots are very hard to see, not visible using an inspection light, only front a side angle or directly looking into it with your face close to the paint.

Should I be concerned over it etching the paint eventually? It wouldn't be wise to apply wax over it would it?

[Scott in Houston]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

The spots are very hard to see, not visible using an inspection light, only front a side angle or directly looking into it with your face close to the paint.

Should I be concerned over it etching the paint eventually? It wouldn't be wise to apply wax over it would it?

Based on all that you said above, my guess is that it is already slightly etched into the paint which is why nothing took it out.
If it's hardly noticeable, then it's up to you. I probably wouldn't do anything further unless it really really bothered me, but based on what you said, it sounds like you could take it out with a DA and polish kind of easily.

[alexw32]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

Based on all that you said above, my guess is that it is already slightly etched into the paint which is why nothing took it out.
If it's hardly noticeable, then it's up to you. I probably wouldn't do anything further unless it really really bothered me, but based on what you said, it sounds like you could take it out with a DA and polish kind of easily.

Thanks for the reply. I feel like you understand my mentality here, it's a new car so naturally I would want to keep it defect free, esp. the hood.

I read that the etching occurs when the water is in liquid state. My best description of the left over mark is a small ring, the center got wiped clean, but the ring won't go away. From reading other people's examples I agree with you that it may have etched slightly (through 2 layers of Ultimate Wax??)

As I mentioned I used some vinegar in an attempt to whip it off, I know that doing so has the effect of thinning the wax.

My question is, since I'm aware of the deposit, would leaving it as it is and rewaxing over it be a good practice? I hear that water marks continue etching slowly, does that mean it's best to act now when it's early and polish it out?

Also, besides polishing would it be worthwhile to try a water spot removal product like Meguiars A3714?

Really appreciate your advice!

[Scott in Houston]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

Let me preface by saying I’m not a pro and I am just a weekend warrior who has really started learning in the last year or so.

IMO, waxing over it, may hide it or fill it enough so that you don’t see it anymore. That may be the right solution for you.
It won’t get worse left untreated. So, you can either truly correct it with compound or polish or you could wax over and conceal it. It will show up again when the wax deteriorates, but you can do it again.

You only have so much clear coat, so compounding to fix it is fine and you won’t get anywhere near all the way through it, however, if it’s barely noticeable, i personally would prefer to conceal for now, and when/if you have more scratches or issues, compound it and truly correct it then.

I would bet that water spot removers won’t do anything further. I can’t know for sure, but it seems they usually let people down more than they work.

[alexw32]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

Let me preface by saying I’m not a pro and I am just a weekend warrior who has really started learning in the last year or so.

IMO, waxing over it, may hide it or fill it enough so that you don’t see it anymore. That may be the right solution for you.
It won’t get worse left untreated. So, you can either truly correct it with compound or polish or you could wax over and conceal it. It will show up again when the wax deteriorates, but you can do it again.

You only have so much clear coat, so compounding to fix it is fine and you won’t get anywhere near all the way through it, however, if it’s barely noticeable, i personally would prefer to conceal for now, and when/if you have more scratches or issues, compound it and truly correct it then.

I would bet that water spot removers won’t do anything further. I can’t know for sure, but it seems they usually let people down more than they work.

Thanks, took your advice and waxed over it. The water spots are still visible if I try to look for them, but to the average person with no experience in car detailing it looks 100% perfect. Though being paranoid as I am, I can't help wonder what happens to the left over water deposit. Since it managed to etch in, wouldn't it continue chewing down?

If I do attempt to correct it in the future, either I'll need a DA and continue using UP, or UC is a must, because these darn water deposits are nearly impossible to polish out by hand. Which shows the etching are deeper than small swirls.

From my experience so far it seems that bugs are less potent than water deposits. I had a bug stain ( missed it when I detailed the front of the car ) sit for three days, still managed to wipe it away using QD and a little bit of pressure with a microfiber. No visible damage to the paint upon close inspection. Maybe it etched the wax though.

BTW, I found car soap to be equally effective and safe as QD when it comes to cleaning dirty surfaces directly, the only problem is that it leaves soap residue unless you rinse it clean. I've been using it on the lower bumper where bugs accumulate, using QD here is rather wasteful, I poured some Gold Soap into a spray bottle and it works great, my thinking is a little bit of soap residue shouldn't hurt the wax or paint, it'll only form some streaks and haze that can be washed off next time. Don't know if this is a good practice.

[Scott in Houston]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

That

[Scott in Houston]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

That’s the real issue isn’t it? We “see” it because we know it’s there but I would bet money that even if someone like me came to look at your car, and you didn’t tell me ahead of time, I wouldn’t see it unless I did a very meticulous paint review with a handheld light, etc. So, how much is it worth to you to remove it or ‘live with it’ for now?

It will not keep etching into the paint. The sun and minerals do that etching, and I’m sure the minerals are gone now. What’s left is the final product of that, and it won’t go any further.

As for bugs, I agree that they’re not terribly bad unless they bake on the paint in the hot sun. Otherwise, they are mostly just a nuisance.

My personal process, I use a good soap that’s not PH neutral, because it truly cleans better. Then, I re-apply Meg’s HCW each time because it’s so easy. This way I get a truly good cleaning each time, and finish with good protection.

[alexw32]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

Indeed, once you "see it" it stays in your mind. I have to tell myself every time I approach the car now don't look for the water spots, don't look for the swirls, just don't! Truth be told if a car were to be kept 100% defect free, you might as well never drive it or take it out of the garage... which beats the purpose of it being a car.

Today I took it out for a drive, it was cloudy, so can't see a single defect, on a sunny day you'd be able to see scratches by looking into the direct shine... something that no one would ever do because it's so blinding. So yeah, besides in a dark garage with ceiling light on, I can't see them at other places.

Thanks for giving me peace of mind on the spots, I thought about the situation this way. By not compounding/polishing now and letting the defect stay, you give yourself the opportunity to do it in the future when (hopefully not ) a more visible defect appears, with some extra few microns of clear coat, you'd be removing less paint overall than doing it now. I guess this is why they advise "polish when necessary".

By not PH neutral do you mean something like citrus wash which is acidic? I use gold class soap and it seems to clean pretty well. I assume you can use more aggressive soaps because you got a hybrid coating on.

I've looked into ceramic coating initially, backed down on it due to the price as well as the skill required. Being a newbie I felt it was a bit beyond my power, I feared I might do something wrong and won't be able to fix it since ceramic coatings are hard to polish off.

Meguair's Hybrid Coating almost sounded too good to be true. For you, how much difference do you notice when it comes to scratch prevention and shine? Can it be applied over a sealant like UW or does it need bare paint to bond well?

[Scott in Houston]

Re: Small Water Mark & Haze

I use Gold Class a lot. It's a good soap, but when I really want to clean, I use Purple Power which is alkaline and will strip waxes, etc.
You can put HCW on by its self or put on top of UW or other sealant. It's awesome in that way!