Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

          
  1. #1
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    1

    Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

    Hey everyone! I stumbled upon Meguiarsonline.com while trying to fact check what I am being told by an autobody shop doing repairs on my 2018 Outback which was t-boned by a taxi driver running a red light back in February. They have told me some pretty questionable stuff which has led me to question the correctness of explanations I have been given with regards to the refinishing. My car is currently back in the shop for the third time since my accident for several deficiencies. After going through your forums, I thought I had enough knowledge to have a conversation with the manager of the body shop regarding some issues. So when I was pointing out some longer straight scratches in the finish right under where they replaced a window trim piece last time it was in, I added that because I can catch a nail on the scratch it's too deep to buff out. The reply I received was that it was fine to buff out because it really wasn't too deep. Do you know what I said. Nothing. I had nothing to say because I really didn't understand the ins and outs of this type of thing. And this is why I've joined and I'm posting. I know it's tough to offer up insight when you haven't seen the car but if anyone has time to read a little further and maybe give an opinion on if something sounds right and if deficiencies should be corrected the way they are proposing I would be so appreciative of your time.


    The background is that my new car after being on road 6 months was in an accident. The car is black in colour (which seems to be of relevance in this saga), and was hit by a Taxi causing damage to drivers side passenger door, rear quarter panel and a bit of damage to drivers door. All in all it was close to $16,000 damage. We have public insurance up here and threshold to write off was not met. Bodywork was finished and painting completed around April 1st. Car went to a mechanic for suspension work, alignment and dynamic control calibration of steering. There were sensor errors that needed to be addressed. 1 was ABS. Other was 2 sensor errors for blind spot warning. It was at mechanic for 43 days, mainly parked outdoors in cold. During this time it snowed 3 or 4 times. On May 21 I was told my car was ready to pick up. I showed up to find there was a bumper clip missing, rear door on drivers side not aligned properly, window trims on drivers side of car were really dinged up compared to passenger side which i assume was because they had to be taken off and reinstalled, and there was an area within the rear trunk area (where I think something was welded) that was not painted. There were also tons and tons of brush marks on the hood of my car and we also found similar marks on the newly painted drivers side passenger door which apparently had been buffed a lot the day before we went to pick up car. Because of the unpainted spot in rear trunk area, they had to repaint much of what had been curing since April 1st. Repainting done and deficiencies apparently completed on June 7th.

    Here are my concerns.

    1. Brush marks on hood. Not part of the accident and not repainted. Came into conversation with auto body shop manager when she went on and on about how much buffing was required on my car and that she got all of the marks out except the brush mark on the hood. When I asked how they got there she told me I did it. All cars have them but only black cars show them. She showed them to me the day in May when I was first told car was ready to pick up. The car was outdoors at the time and took photos while there. She kept insisting that I made all of the marks. I'm 5 foot nothing and pretty weak. I'm definitely not able to press down hard on a snow brush and only had to brush snow with a brush a few times before accident - I used the "arm" method until I remembered to purchase a brush in January. It was only after I looked at photos I took and saw similar marks on the newly painted door that she backed down and told me they would just buff the marks out on the hood. I asked about losing top coat on the hood and she replied that buffing does not remove top coat. It just moves it around. Is this true when we are speaking about the factory finish top coat? Or even the non fully cured topcoat on my newly painted doors? At the time I didn't know enough to feel the scratches to see how deep they were. Should I be concerned about the finish on the hood now being too thin? Is there a way to tell if it's too thin now?

    2. After the repainting done at the start of June, I was stressed about driving a car that had not had time to cure at all. It's an insurance claim and I asked how we would possibly sort out dings and scratches and marks - how can we tell what would not have been there had the repainting in June not been necessary? She replied that the top coat goes on at maximum strength and the curing is only off-gassing. My understanding of curing is it is a chemical process and strength increases over time. Can someone please comment on this?

    3. I found scratches on the window trim that look like its from being buffed. I recall seeing in someones post on this sight that someone said that he does not use tape when he buffs his own car but he would if he was working on someone else's. Is it normal for trim to be protected when being buffed? I asked the auto body shop to replace the damaged trim pieces. They said that there's not a problem and they are going to polish these marks out. Should I be concerned about this? Do I have to worry about a protective finish being removed by the polishing?

    4. I mentioned early about scratches deep enough to catch a nail in the finish of my car where repairs done. Autobody shop has told me it is fine to buff out as they were not really deep. How does one know if a scratch is too deep to buff. And if a scratch gets buffed out when it shouldn't, what is the consequence? How can one tell after the fact?

    5. Ghosting. I don't know what this is really called but as the weather here got hot and the second paint job started to cure, I started seeing hazy opaque spots start to come out. Several. At first I thought it was buffing compound that I didn't notice at first but it is not. Autobody shop has told me that it's perfectly normal for these hazy spots to occur when paint cures. Again, it's because my car is black I see them. I was told it was from dust and impurities from when they painted. Not a big deal, they said they would just polish them out. Do all cars get these spots when curing? If not, what is it? What is the correct way to deal with it?

    6. Buffing mark, buffing marks and buffing marks. Will I always have a portion of my car be swirly twirly in bright light? When I tell the autobody shop that my expectation is that I have the same finish as pre accident (only 6 months on road and still new car beautiful), they start telling me how all black cars are covered in marks. Mine was not. As can be seen on the undamaged passenger side of vehicle. Always a touchless car wash, always parked way in the middle of nowhere in order to avoid door dings. Is there any way they can get rid of these buffing marks?

    For anyone who has stuck with me this long, I thank you. I am going to try and attach photos of the ghosting and an example of scratched trim. Don't hate me though, I downloaded an app to my phone so I could try to decrease photo size but it don't think it worked. I have no personal computer so I'm trying to make due with what I have.
    Any insight or observations that you would care to share would be so appreciated. I am grateful.

    I just tried to insert photos that I had uploaded to my gallery here. Looks like I don't have permission to post an attachment. They are in my gallery though if you can find it from my user name. Sorry!

  2. #2
    Michael The Guz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Lawndale, CA
    Age
    40
    Posts
    5,410
    Rep Power
    62

    Re: Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

    Welcome to MOL.

    I will post your photos.




  3. #3
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    1

    Re: Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

    Thank you!

  4. #4
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    1

    Re: Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

    Thank you for posting my photos. One photo shows scratches on trim that I believe occurred during buffing. The other photo shows some areas where haziness is appearing.

  5. #5
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    west branch, michigan
    Posts
    93
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

    I asked about losing top coat on the hood and she replied that buffing does not remove top coat. It just moves it around. Is this true when we are speaking about the factory finish top coat?Or even the non fully cured topcoat on my newly painted doors?
    thats a line of BS. buffing removes clear period. might be minimal but it does. factory clear is extremely thin as is so buffing can cut through clear. the clear on the doors- if that was repainted, will be a higher mil thickness but will be the same as with the factory clear- buffing will remove some.
    buffing is refining scratches left from sanding. it isnt moving clear around. if clear is moved around, there was massive heat build up during buffing and it will show.


    She replied that the top coat goes on at maximum strength and the curing is only off-gassing. My understanding of curing is it is a chemical process and strength increases over time. Can someone please comment on this?ummm.whaaaat? clear coat is very soft when it goes on. in fact, its a friggin liquid and that isnt max strength. in alll honesty, i have never heard maximum strength of clearcoat used in auto body so if she is saying this? welp, i seriously question her knowledge of the auto paint industry. HARDNESS is the term used for clearcoats. some are way harder than others when fully cured. if the clear wasnt baked in the booth, its going to take a few months to fully offgass, cure, and reach its full hardness.

    Is it normal for trim to be protected when being buffed?
    the car was an insurance job. insurance shops want to push them through as fast as possible at the lowest expense so they wont mask.. no excuses,though.

    I mentioned early about scratches deep enough to catch a nail in the finish of my car where repairs done. Autobody shop has told me it is fine to buff out as they were not really deep. How does one know if a scratch is too deep to buff. And if a scratch gets buffed out when it shouldn't, what is the consequence? How can one tell after the fact?

    if i can feel a scratch with my finger nail, its too deep to buff out.what i think you are feeling is probably pizz poor prepwork- the sanding process wasnt good enough before paint and clear was applied. if these are "buffed out" it could cut through the clear and then you will experience clearcoat failure in that area real quick.

    Ghosting. I don't know what this is really called but as the weather here got hot and the second paint job started to cure, I started seeing hazy opaque spots start to come out. Several. At first I thought it was buffing compound that I didn't notice at first but it is not. Autobody shop has told me that it's perfectly normal for these hazy spots to occur when paint cures. Again, it's because my car is black I see them. I was told it was from dust and impurities from when they painted. Not a big deal, they said they would just polish them out. Do all cars get these spots when curing? If not, what is it? What is the correct way to deal with it?

    dust and impurities when painting? wtf is the name of this place- hack it and pack it auto repair???? seriously, even the best painters in the best paint booths can end up with a dust nib here and there but what you mention-thats straight up jacked up.
    the hazy spots coming out are hard to say. sometimes when clear is wet sanded and buffed before the clear is cured it can shrink some-opening up the sanding scratches a bit. we're talkin like 1500-3000 grit sanding scratches here IF it was done properly- they will show as hazyness or a semigoss/satin/flat finish.
    but saying its from dust and impurities??? got some pics of these spots??

    Buffing mark, buffing marks and buffing marks. Will I always have a portion of my car be swirly twirly in bright light? When I tell the autobody shop that my expectation is that I have the same finish as pre accident (only 6 months on road and still new car beautiful), they start telling me how all black cars are covered in marks.
    straight up line of BS. you will get the marks from someone that doesnt know wtf they are doing with a buffer and a shop that doesnt believe in quality work. go through this photo album and have these asshats show ya the swirls.
    https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/photos


    no hate for ya,peggy, i dont think its just my opinion but i think this shop is trying to screw ya over. everything THEY say is a line of BS. NONE of it is professional.your vehicle should come back to you looking like it did the day before the accident-if not better. i hope the mods here are ok with sharing a link to 2 forums with painters that will also offer their knowledge of the auto repair industry and how horribly full of BS this shop is- people with way more knowledge than myself and if i can read the BS? these guys are gonna read more of it they can also help ya in how to get this done RIGHT.
    http://www.spiuserforum.com/index.php
    https://www.autobody101.com/forums/

    im pretty sure the guys there will be just as buggered up about this as i am. its complete BS ya have to go through this but the good news is, youre getting armed with the facts.


  6. #6
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    1

    Re: Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

    Hey, thank you for all the great information and the links, TomSteve! You are awesome! I'll definitely be browsing the links later. I have loaded 2 additional photos of the hazy areas to my gallery. I've read the instructions but can't seem to be able to add photos to this thread. The Guz helped be out and added the first two for me. If you can get to my gallery you can see them there. Unfortunately my car is back in the shop so I'm limited to photos on my phone camera. I feel guilty asking a few follow up questions as you clearly spent a lot of your time on this and I soooooooooo appreciate it. So don't feel the need to spend more time on this. I'm throwing them out there if anyone is able to comment.

    (Just to share, I chose this bodyshop. I could have chosen ANY bodyshop for this insurance claim but I chose this one because they were affiliated with the dealership where I bought the car. Someone has since told me to NEVER go with the dealership auto body shop as they get a lot business funnelled directly to them through dealership. Always go with the guy whose bread and butter depends on his reputation.)

    1. Window Trim with buffer marks - Bodyshop proposed to polish scratches out. The photo I posted was the worst area though there are others with less damage. When chrome is polished for the purpose of removing scratches (window trim pieces are chrome, right?), are you losing a protective layer? Is polished chrome more likely to mark up or rust? Will it require more maintenance than unpolished chrome?

    2. Topcoat goes on at maximum strength - My bad, she may have said hardness. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on that one. I almost fell off my chair when you said clear could be baked in the booth! I'm going to assume my bodyshop cannot bake it in the booth but I will look into this. Won't change anything but I think I'd like to know. Is there a downside to doing it? Living in a colder climate I was told between 60-90 days to cure. 90 days of total stress.

    3. Scratches deep enough to catch a nail - I read your reply as meaning that no scratches that can be felt should be buffed out. Doing so can result in topcoat failure. I am 100% that they buffed them. What should they have done? I'd like to question them as to why they didn't. Is topcoat failure easy to spot? If it fails, do they sand it down and repaint the car?

    4. Hazyness/Ghosting- I added a couple of photos to my gallery. Sorry that I can't add to this thread. I'm not sure if clear was wet sanded. For sure it was buffed before cured. February 18th accident. 1st painted around April 1st. Discovered they missed painting an area on May 21st. (Prior to my showing up to pick it up on May 21st it was buffed, A LOT! General Manager went on and on about how much buffing she had to do. At that point paint had been curing less than 60 days in cooler climate). I left car there to have several defects dealt with. Car repainted June 3rdish. I was told it was ready June 7. I can't say with 100% certainty that it was buffed between re-painting on June 3rd and my picking it up on June 7th. Did not notice any hazing until July 16. It was back at the body shop July 11 to July 16 because there was some weird stuff happening with my locks, brakes and blind spot sensors. Noticed hazing when I got home. Weather was quite hot in the weeks prior to noticing the hazing. I did feel the area and felt no scratches. I didn't examine to closely though. Would love to know what happened to cause them.

    So, bodyshop says they are polishing these areas out. Is polishing different from buffing? To me polishing sounds like no clear coat being removed. If this is the case, how exactly would this get rid of all of the 'alleged trapped dust' that is now coming up to surface as paint cures.

    5. Buffing Marks - I think I mentioned that every time I bring up the buffing marks she replys that I should look around her lot at all the black cars because they all have them. I told this to someone and he replied that it made sense that they all had buffing marks as the body shop had worked on all of them. Good to know that it is not the norm!! If clear cures with all of these marks all over it, how can they be removed. With all of the buffing she's doing I'm beginning to be concerned with how much clear is left on my car. I'm I stressing for nothing? Is there a way to know?



    I will definitely be posting on the painting forums. Thank you again so very much for taking the time to help me out!!

  7. #7
    Registered Member Old Bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    San Juan Capistrano CA
    Posts
    571
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

    Hear are Peggy's two new images:




  8. #8
    Registered Member Old Bear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    San Juan Capistrano CA
    Posts
    571
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

    Peggy
    To me the scratches on the trim do not look like they came from a buffer.
    They look too course.
    They look like they may have come from sand paper, abrasions if trim was stored and stacked off the car for a while, or inflicted by other methods.
    Could these have been caused by someone using an ice scrapper on the glass and not stopping until they hit the trim piece?

    I had to look up the concept of a snow broom.
    I had scary thoughts of a broom of course straw.
    If those are not really soft like a microfiber towel, I would be concerned about scratches.
    Between the ice scrapper and snow broom, I would be taking Spanish classes.

  9. #9
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    1

    Re: Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

    Thanks so much Old Bear.

  10. #10
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Winnipeg Manitoba
    Posts
    12
    Rep Power
    1

    Re: Looking for help fact checking what I am being told by an autobody shop

    Thanks for your reply!

    Snow brushes are nasty things but necessary. The plastic blade on a scraper wouldn’t leave that type of mark. The brush on a snow brush has very coarse bristles and is probably an average of 8 inches long. I think if a snow brush left those marks, the marked up area would have been several inches longer to match the length of the brush. Perhaps not the exact length of the brush but at least closer. It’s difficult to tell from the photo, but the damaged area is only a couple of inches maximum.

    It was my driver side passenger door that was hit and most damage was sustained by that door and rear quarter panel. Though, when I tried to exit my vehicle after the accident the drivers door was slightly stuck. There was body work done on it and I know it was repainted. I can’t say if they removed the trim it or not. They want to polish the scratches out and I’m not sure whether I should be concerned about some sort of a protective layer being removed if it’s polished or if it will be fine.

    Thought I would share this. It’s why not clearing the snow off your car can nab you a ticket under the highway traffic act.

    https://www.newsflare.com/video/5972...-massachusetts

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Pebble Beach 2012.....Fact.
    By juliom2 in forum Company & Forum Announcements
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: Oct 27th, 2012, 06:56 PM
  2. Fact or fiction QD
    By imz4n in forum Myths & Confusion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Aug 7th, 2011, 07:37 AM
  3. Does Meguiar's have a Club a Jobber rep or AutoBody shop can join?
    By William Pringle in forum Detailing 101
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jun 13th, 2008, 01:21 PM
  4. Fact or Fiction
    By 05BlkAltima in forum Detailing 101
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jul 2nd, 2005, 07:28 AM
  5. Car back from autobody shop
    By Bill Prentice in forum Detailing 101
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Mar 24th, 2005, 08:23 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •