M27 Questions
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  1. #1
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    M27 Questions

    Hey everyone,

    Wanted to wait a week before posting these questions as I thought some time might have solved some of the issues I had but it hasn't.

    Seven or eight days ago I received my M27 and set apart a few days to follow the recommended instructions for application on the bottle (decon if needed, polish, maybe panel wipe) onto my 3 year old, but new to me, car. My house has enough shade for a wash and driveway detail, so I started washing with Shampoo Plus and towel drying, then felt the paint didn't need any decon because this was done about 6 months ago before application of M21, so I prepped for polishing. Using a Makita rotary, Rupes yellow rotary polishing pads, and M205 I went over the entire car got a really good finish - virtually swirl free (No access to DA yet, been using a rotary for a few years now). Following the polish, I wiped the panels down with a 10% IPA solution to prep the surface and on went the M27. So working about 3 panels at a time, I used a foam applicator and waxed on as thin as I possibly could, so thin I had to use a headlamp and watch behind the applicator to verify the trail of product left on the panels. After about five or 10 minutes (noting the instructions said a 'minimum' of two to five minutes before removal), I wiped the panels down - I say wipe down and not remove because the self - leveling technology made it look like I didn't wax the panels and there wasn't anything there. After finishing I went around a second time to ensure even coverage. All went well and I felt pretty proud after all the work.

    The next day I came out to feel the car and it didn't feel all that slick, not much more than after I polished (before I panel wiped). I didn't think too much of it but then we got some rain here in NorCal these past few days (days after I applied the wax so I was sure it cured my then) and now the paint feels grabby and bare - still beads decently but isn't slick. Also note that the car has barely moved since I polished it because everything is closed for now and there's no where to go hahaha. This is when I started to second guess my application process and cure time after application. I detailed my car outside, but in the shade, and by the time I finished polishing it was later in the day, around dusk, so the panels weren't hot - this is when I applied the wax. The days themselves were sunny at about 70 degrees and no wind. I made sure to wipe off all oils with the IPA wipe to aid with the wax adhesion.

    Did I apply something incorrectly or inaccuratly? My wife's car was sealed with M21 about 2 months ago and it still felt slicker and beaded water better than the day of application or next day after the cure time of the M27. When I applied it I was concerned with condensation that night and its effect on M27 curing, but stepping outside at about 11pm I only noticed a patch of condensation on the roof and some hood, and various areas of the car didn't feel different. The wax wasn't exposed to any daylight until the next morning because it was applied late enough in the day the day of to avoid it.

    I really tried to follow the instructions on the bottle and prep the car in as best conditions as I could get, I've been taking care of cars for years so I feel like I have a good idea on how to apply a wax properly, I prepped as best I could, and I don't want to knock anything other than my process as of now because its totally possible I did something wrong, after all M27 is part of the professional line and I would expect it needs ideal conditions for application and cure - tried to replicate these as best I could.

    To verify my expectations on the product weren't too high I went out and bought HCW applied it on a panel of my car, and that was extremely slick and felt very good. Maybe I'm expecting something M27 wasn't designed to give? It's also possible HCW is just slicker by design?

    Thanks for the help, sorry for the long post.

  2. #2
    Product & Training Specialist Nick Winn's Avatar
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    Re: M27 Questions

    Hi Tim,

    Thank you for the detailed explanation. Clearly you know the details of how it was applied, prep work, environment, etc. are important when trying to determine an answer to your experience so again thank you for that.

    It's my understanding the factor you are trying to clarify is the slickness of the paint after application correct?
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    Product & Training Specialist Nick Winn's Avatar
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    Re: M27 Questions

    So I ran this by the product developer since he has much more time with 27 than I do. Basically the only thing he could determine based off of your description was that it is possible it was applied too thin. It definitely should need to be wiped off even after the self level.

    It sounds like you applied much less product than you normally would compared to a product like M21? Would you agree?

    Apologies for the experience. This sealant definitely feels & applies differently than a more traditional sealant like M21.
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    Re: M27 Questions

    Thanks for the response Nick,

    Sorry for the ambiguity with my issues and questions, spent a little too much time on the description of the application process! haha. Yes, I am trying to clarify the slickness of the paint after application. Again, it was only concerning to me because after cure time and one mild rainstorm most of that property seems to have disappeared. And I was trying to see if there was something wrong with the steps I took for prep or the way I applied it.

    It's totally possible it went on too thin if that's what the developers are bringing up. I always try to apply waxes as thin as I can and haven't noticed or even thought that this can be an issue. I always try to apply just to the point of seeing trails behind my applicator and once it starts to get a little grabby I'll add another drop of two of product. After all, how thick of a layer of wax is actually being left behind after cure you know?

    I'll be washing my car again today and after I'm done I'll apply another coat, a little heavier this time, and see how it looks and works in a few weeks.

    Again, thanks for the response! I'll give an update after application and in a week or two, if this would be helpful.

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    Product & Training Specialist Nick Winn's Avatar
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    Re: M27 Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Semeryuk View Post
    Thanks for the response Nick,

    Sorry for the ambiguity with my issues and questions, spent a little too much time on the description of the application process! haha. Yes, I am trying to clarify the slickness of the paint after application. Again, it was only concerning to me because after cure time and one mild rainstorm most of that property seems to have disappeared. And I was trying to see if there was something wrong with the steps I took for prep or the way I applied it.

    It's totally possible it went on too thin if that's what the developers are bringing up. I always try to apply waxes as thin as I can and haven't noticed or even thought that this can be an issue. I always try to apply just to the point of seeing trails behind my applicator and once it starts to get a little grabby I'll add another drop of two of product. After all, how thick of a layer of wax is actually being left behind after cure you know?

    I'll be washing my car again today and after I'm done I'll apply another coat, a little heavier this time, and see how it looks and works in a few weeks.

    Again, thanks for the response! I'll give an update after application and in a week or two, if this would be helpful.
    No worries on the explanation, I would consider that an excellent description. Much rather have that amount than too little. haha.

    It is very normal for that "initial slickness" after application to fade especially after a rainstorm really with most any wax or sealant. This is by no means an indication the product is not performing in any other characteristics like water beading behavior, durability, longevity, or gloss. We have even put on the front label of certain spray waxes which are used to boost original coatings that they can bring back "that just waxed feeling", because we know that "initial slickness" can fade. Also different products can provide "a more slick feeling" initially than others.

    Great regarding washing car, that was my suggestion, wash, dry, & apply another coat with more product & check it out.

    Yes please keep in touch
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    Re: M27 Questions

    Here it is after washing, the extra coat did help a lot and now it feels as expected, or like I expected when I initially applied it last week. That self leveling technology threw me off hard because after the initial application and wipe down there were very apparent streak marks from my applicator pad that no amount of wiping removed, but as stated on the label these "self leveled" and paint is an even shade now. Also tried a different brand of soap however and it left horrible runny streaks all over the panels and glass so I chucked that soap out, but that's a separate discussion. Luckily most of the stains were removed with some IPA. I'll give an update every few weeks as to the performance of the M27, want to see and document how M27 preforms and lasts because I've been pretty excited for this stuff,

    Thanks!

    Black cars are a serious PITA Haha.



  7. #7
    Product & Training Specialist Nick Winn's Avatar
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    Re: M27 Questions

    Thanks for the update & happy to hear things are working out. I am glad you thought to get in touch with other enthusiasts & myself on our forum to determine what was going on & not just chuck the 27. Car looks great & agree black cars look the best but are a pain.

    Definitely keep us updated if you would like!
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