UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

[NorthantsPete]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

That's interesting - so you'd use the red hex for wax application or pure gloss with UP? I'm just now trying to get all the combos in my head along with DA speed and all the other varying factors. Is low speed (gloss) considered as maybe 2-3 on a da and high speed (more cut) considered as 5?

I do like the lake country but they only have 3 pads in the SDO range and im thinking i might need more to choose from with soft paint - Ie like the hex pad that is inbetween the yellow and black megs pads. Im not sure i see much difference with the hex red and black pads. Sometimes too many pads does confuse things i guess.

Dont overthink it. Without the panel in front of you its all theory and ...well.. you fry your brain.

Utimate compound is more abrasive, ultimate polish is less abrasive ... ultimate polish with no pressure, is a glaze. pick your 'liquid sandpaper' and go for it depending on the paint condition.

you can use harder or softer pads as you need, UC is the harsh abbrasive, and UP is the light abrasive very very light). UP with a hard pad would finish most things, UC with a hard pad may cause marring that needs finishing with a softwer pad and/or UP.

[rover137]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

Depends.... you can correct with a da and polishing pad, or you can just use a finishing pad (or spread by hand) and make use of the filling ability as I do
I dont need to remve anymore clearcoat.

ITs not an exact science as, say the door jams will have thinner paint than your exterior... a compound may remove say 2 micrograms of paint and you have around 40-60 to play with.

IF you used ultimate compound every week, youd be into the filler by month 2!

Dont overthink it. Without the panel in front of you its all theory and ...well.. you fry your brain.

Utimate compound is more abrasive, ultimate polish is less abrasive ... ultimate polish with no pressure, is a glaze. pick your 'liquid sandpaper' and go for it depending on the paint condition.

you can use harder or softer pads as you need, UC is the harsh abbrasive, and UP is the light abrasive very very light). UP with a hard pad would finish most things, UC with a hard pad may cause marring that needs finishing with a softwer pad and/or UP.

Yeah all good points. Easy to overthink it all until you get a DA and have a go. I don't think I need to use UC and will avoid it if i can. Car is 6 months old and i instructed the dealer to not touch it and i hand polished with UP and follow the advice to not create swirls during the washing process as best as i can.

So UP is either a glaze or has minor swirl removal ability depending on speed and pressure? At what speed (generally speaking) does it cross over into the correction category? Say from 3-5?

[NorthantsPete]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

Depends.... you can correct with a da and polishing pad, or you can just use a finishing pad (or spread by hand) and make use of the filling ability as I do
I dont need to remve anymore clearcoat.

ITs not an exact science as, say the door jams will have thinner paint than your exterior... a compound may remove say 2 micrograms of paint and you have around 40-60 to play with.

IF you used ultimate compound every week, youd be into the filler by month 2!



Yeah all good points. Easy to overthink it all until you get a DA and have a go. I don't think I need to use UC and will avoid it if i can. Car is 6 months old and i instructed the dealer to not touch it and i hand polished with UP and follow the advice to not create swirls during the washing process as best as i can.

So UP is either a glaze or has minor swirl removal ability depending on speed and pressure? At what speed (generally speaking) does it cross over into the correction category? Say from 3-5?

Again not an exact science depending if you have hard or soft clearcoat, however generally speakign a low speed or by hand with a very soft pad will offer no correction, just glaze, bring up the speed and check your work, if you need further corection change the pad to a slightly firmer one.

[drumdan]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

That's interesting - so you'd use the red hex for wax application or pure gloss with UP? I'm just now trying to get all the combos in my head along with DA speed and all the other varying factors. Is low speed (gloss) considered as maybe 2-3 on a da and high speed (more cut) considered as 5?

I do like the lake country but they only have 3 pads in the SDO range and im thinking i might need more to choose from with soft paint - Ie like the hex pad that is inbetween the yellow and black megs pads. Im not sure i see much difference with the hex red and black pads. Sometimes too many pads does confuse things i guess.

I'll use the red for applying Ultimate Liquid Wax, or finish polishing with Ultimate Polish.

I try to do as much work as possible with the 8mm Porter Cable 7424 and a selection of pads. I prefer the green, blue, and red foams found in the Hex Logic range. They are manufactured for Chemical Guys by Buff and Shine. For situations wher r the green and ultimate compound isn't strong enough, I'll use the orange/black microfiber cutting pad. For cleaner waxes (like M06, M66) I really like the black foam.

I also have a selection of Buff and Shine pads from the Uro line that works on both the Porter Cable, and my Rupes polishers (Duetto, and Mini). Uro-Fiber, Uro-Tech foam yellow and white.

So, even within the ranges I chose what pads worked best for me and my particular approach.

As far as the difference between the black and red hex.. The newer black pads are actually pretty stiff for a finishing pad. My old ones are really soft. The black is similar in stiffness to the green, but the foam has a tighter structure, giving it a finer finish. The cells in the green pad are larger than even the orange and yellow, which gives it decent mechanical cutting ability, where the orange relies more on It's stiffness. The yellow sort of combines characteristics of the green and orange.

Another way to look at it is that the Hex Logic range consisted of two foam families:

European foam:
Red - Ultra Finishing
White - Polishing
Orange - Medium Cutting
Yellow - Heavy Cutting

American:
Black - Finishing (80 pores per inch)
Blue - Polishing (70 pores per inch)
Green - Polishing (60 pores per inch. Some vendors called it heavy polishing/light cutting/heavy cutting)

The Euro foam worked more on pad density, where the American foam worked more on foam porosity. The American foam work great because they are easier to contour to irregularities in the surfaces. Slight curves and contours are more easily navigated with those pads. The biggest drawback for me is that they absorb more of the orbiting action of the tool. So, I try and keep them rotating as much as possible.

Kind of confusing, but I studied this stuff for years. In reading, talking to manufacturers, and in practice.

As far as having a bigger selection of pads.. I try and keep it as simple as possible. I have a customer that stands out for their finicky black painted car. Under lights just about anything I have leaves just the slightest bit of haze. Ultimate Polish on a red pad works great on it, even after a panel wipe.

[rover137]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

I'll use the red for applying Ultimate Liquid Wax, or finish polishing with Ultimate Polish.

I try to do as much work as possible with the 8mm Porter Cable 7424 and a selection of pads. I prefer the green, blue, and red foams found in the Hex Logic range. They are manufactured for Chemical Guys by Buff and Shine. For situations wher r the green and ultimate compound isn't strong enough, I'll use the orange/black microfiber cutting pad. For cleaner waxes (like M06, M66) I really like the black foam.

I also have a selection of Buff and Shine pads from the Uro line that works on both the Porter Cable, and my Rupes polishers (Duetto, and Mini). Uro-Fiber, Uro-Tech foam yellow and white.

So, even within the ranges I chose what pads worked best for me and my particular approach.

As far as the difference between the black and red hex.. The newer black pads are actually pretty stiff for a finishing pad. My old ones are really soft. The black is similar in stiffness to the green, but the foam has a tighter structure, giving it a finer finish. The cells in the green pad are larger than even the orange and yellow, which gives it decent mechanical cutting ability, where the orange relies more on It's stiffness. The yellow sort of combines characteristics of the green and orange.

Another way to look at it is that the Hex Logic range consisted of two foam families:

European foam:
Red - Ultra Finishing
White - Polishing
Orange - Medium Cutting
Yellow - Heavy Cutting

American:
Black - Finishing (80 pores per inch)
Blue - Polishing (70 pores per inch)
Green - Polishing (60 pores per inch. Some vendors called it heavy polishing/light cutting/heavy cutting)

The Euro foam worked more on pad density, where the American foam worked more on foam porosity. The American foam work great because they are easier to contour to irregularities in the surfaces. Slight curves and contours are more easily navigated with those pads. The biggest drawback for me is that they absorb more of the orbiting action of the tool. So, I try and keep them rotating as much as possible.

Kind of confusing, but I studied this stuff for years. In reading, talking to manufacturers, and in practice.

As far as having a bigger selection of pads.. I try and keep it as simple as possible. I have a customer that stands out for their finicky black painted car. Under lights just about anything I have leaves just the slightest bit of haze. Ultimate Polish on a red pad works great on it, even after a panel wipe.

That's interesting, I wonder which foam i would be getting from ordering here in Aus. Maybe i could try Ultimate Polish on a red pad to start with and see how that goes. I was also thinking about giving the Shine mate pads a go as they are readily available here and have some good reviews.

It's interesting that different regions have different foams and different ways to measure density and cutting ability.

Does the UP on the red pad with the finicky black paint also provide some slight correction?

I find it hard to compare pads because different info sources all say different things. In this chart it says that the blue, red and black HEX pads all have no cut.

https://www.chemicalguys.com/blogarticle?cid=blog-article-hex-logic-pad-color-code

But, as you've said I've found other sources that say they do. As you say, it is also about the liquid being used as well as pressure and DA speed!

[rover137]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

Yes, that's the one.

It's got some cut, probably between the yellow and black Meguiar's discs. You might also like the red hex (similar to the black) which has no cut. Regardless, of how light the pad is, there is a light mechanical abrasive cut in the Ultimate Polish whose strength depends on how you use it. Low speeds, moderate pressure, light product application, and you're probably up for some serious gloss.

I use Ultimate Polish with the green pad (and higher speed, moderate pressure) in many one step polishing situations. While I get surprising defect removal, the trade off is a little gloss. When polishing for gloss I'm typically using the blue, or the yellow Buff and Shine Uro-Tech.

Lake Country are also very nice. Their black would be excellent.

I think i have decided on the LC SDO range as it is similar to the megs in terms of a 3 pad range. They are also easy to come by here is Aus and at a good price. Have you got any experience with these in terms of how they compare to megs? I am assuming they are almost identical - Blue=burgandy, Orange = yellow and black = black? I will then need to buy some kind of waxing pad.

[drumdan]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

That's interesting, I wonder which foam i would be getting from ordering here in Aus. Maybe i could try Ultimate Polish on a red pad to start with and see how that goes. I was also thinking about giving the Shine mate pads a go as they are readily available here and have some good reviews.

It's interesting that different regions have different foams and different ways to measure density and cutting ability.

Does the UP on the red pad with the finicky black paint also provide some slight correction?

I find it hard to compare pads because different info sources all say different things. In this chart it says that the blue, red and black HEX pads all have no cut.

https://www.chemicalguys.com/blogarticle?cid=blog-article-hex-logic-pad-color-code

But, as you've said I've found other sources that say they do. As you say, it is also about the liquid being used as well as pressure and DA speed!

The blue, and red are pretty soft. The black used to be, but their current foam is a tad more resilient.

The red pad will have no mechanical cut.

[drumdan]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

I think i have decided on the LC SDO range as it is similar to the megs in terms of a 3 pad range. They are also easy to come by here is Aus and at a good price. Have you got any experience with these in terms of how they compare to megs? I am assuming they are almost identical - Blue=burgandy, Orange = yellow and black = black? I will then need to buy some kind of waxing pad.

The SDO is a great choice!

You got the line up right.
Blue = cutting
Orange = polishing
Black = finishing/waxing

You can use the black for waxing, or with Ultimate Polish. I would want to a few of each. Eight is my preferred number.

[rover137]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

The SDO is a great choice!

You got the line up right.
Blue = cutting
Orange = polishing
Black = finishing/waxing

You can use the black for waxing, or with Ultimate Polish. I would want to a few of each. Eight is my preferred number.

I notice they were designed for long throw DAs but surely they are still compatible with a 12mm thorw?

Wow 8 of each variety!? I was going to get 3-4 of each and clean on the fly with an old microfiber.

Thanks for all your help!

[drumdan]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

I notice they were designed for long throw DAs but surely they are still compatible with a 12mm thorw?

Wow 8 of each variety!? I was going to get 3-4 of each and clean on the fly with an old microfiber.

Thanks for all your help!

They will work great on even an 8mm polisher. Rupes considers the 12mm to be a "talk stroke" though.

Four will work too. I like to have insurance pads.

[rover137]

Re: UP every 1-2 years - conflicting advice

They will work great on even an 8mm polisher. Rupes considers the 12mm to be a "talk stroke" though.

Four will work too. I like to have insurance pads.

Yeah makes sense.

I'll start with 4 for the time being and see how i go and how often i use it.