Early clear coat failure or wrong products used?

[crickets]

I'm trying to determine if I'm dealing with very early stages of clear coat failure, or if I'm just using the wrong products on this car. It was repainted in base/clear just over 3 years ago and cut/buffed to remove dust nibs and orange peel for a show car finish. However, just months after the fresh paint, before I had even waxed it for the first time, the engine blew up. The car then sat outside in the weather for about 6 months awaiting repairs. Since then, the paint just will not hold it's shine. It gets what looks like dull hard water stains all over, but washing/waxing will not remove them. I have to resort to a heavy cut foam pad on my DA polisher with 2 passes of M105 to get the finish looking good again.

I have been using the M105 with the heavy cut foam pad, followed by M205 with a polishing pad, then #7 glaze, followed by #26 wax. After this process the car looks fantastic and will stay that way as long as it's garaged. I last did this in late May and the car stayed in the garage for a month looking great. Then I went back to work and within the first week of being out in the weather for 10+ hours a day while I was at work (garaged at night), the car looked horrible again. Is the #26 wax just not durable enough to last a week in the weather?


Here are some pictures of what it looks like:

Notice in this pic, the paint still has nice reflectivity of the flashlight, but in the reflection of the shop light to the left of the flashlight you can see the dullness in the clear coat:


This pic makes it look much worse than it really is, but this is shining a flashlight on it:


And here are similar pictures after 2 passes with M105 on a heavy cut foam pad with the DA:




As you can see, the finish comes back nicely, but it doesn't last long once it sees the elements for very long. I like to drive this car a lot, but also like to keep it looking nearly show ready. Am I using the wrong products or is this signaling very early clear coat failure? Any suggestions for something that can stand up to the elements a lot better? If this is early clear coat failure, any suggestions for products I can use to prolong the remaining life as much as possible? Maybe a wax with more UV protection or something?

Thanks,
Crickets

[HCAD]

Re: Early clear coat failure or wrong products used?

It's not a single stage paint by chance, is it?

There are a number of Meguiar's products that will outlast #26. For better longevity I'd go with some of the new Sio2 Ceramic products, like Meg's new one, Pro Hybrid Ceramic Sealant (#M27 coincidentally).

[Nick Winn]

Re: Early clear coat failure or wrong products used?

I just wanted to clarify that you are saying the paint goes from looking like Picture #4(after buffing) to looking like Picture #2 & #3 after a period of time even just in the garage?

Thanks

[crickets]

Re: Early clear coat failure or wrong products used?

Thanks for the feedback guys.

HCAD: This is definitely not single stage paint. I might try some of that #27 if I can find it. Right now the car is in the garage, freshly buffed, waiting on me to decide what to protect it with this time. So, I need to get something soon.

Nick Winn: As long as the car stays in the garage and doesn't see the sun, the paint will stay looking like pic #4(after buffing) indefinitely. However, it only takes a matter of a week in the sun to go back to looking like pics #2 & #3.

Once it looks like pics 2 and 3 it won't come back with just a simple wash and wax - it requires full on heavy cutting compound to look good again. I'm afraid I'm going to run out of clear thickness quickly if I have to keep compounding every few weeks.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Early clear coat failure or wrong products used?

Thanks for the feedback guys.

HCAD: This is definitely not single stage paint. I might try some of that #27 if I can find it. Right now the car is in the garage, freshly buffed, waiting on me to decide what to protect it with this time. So, I need to get something soon.

Nick Winn: As long as the car stays in the garage and doesn't see the sun, the paint will stay looking like pic #4(after buffing) indefinitely. However, it only takes a matter of a week in the sun to go back to looking like pics #2 & #3.

Once it looks like pics 2 and 3 it won't come back with just a simple wash and wax - it requires full on heavy cutting compound to look good again. I'm afraid I'm going to run out of clear thickness quickly if I have to keep compounding every few weeks.

I have some thoughts but let me ask around & confirm & will report back.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Early clear coat failure or wrong products used?

Ok so yes, the clear coat is failing, what has caused this is one of a couple things. The UV protection sits in upper portion of the clear coat when dried or cured. If the clear has been overworked & that top layer of UV protection has been gotten into enough, it will oxidize fast like you are experiencing. It could also have been a poor quality clear coat from the beginning and does not have any or has very little UV protection.

Moving forward, what's left is pretty fragile & while some products may help feed the paint with oils & extend the time from the oxidation look coming back a little, unfortunately, yes the clear is "failing".

[crickets]

Re: Early clear coat failure or wrong products used?

That's pretty much what I figure was going on. I think what did the paint in was when it just sat outside, unprotected, unwashed, unwaxed for months after being freshly painted. I was told to wait 90 days for it to cure after it was painted before applying any wax. That 90 day window had not passed before the engine blew up and it sat outside awaiting repairs for months. This is a mid-range clear, not the best most expensive stuff, but not the cheapest either. It was highly recommended and well liked stuff. For what it's worth, I have another car that has the same clear on it that is now 12 years old and still looks fantastic. However, it is never out in the weather unless I'm actually driving it or at a car show with it.

So the answer I need then is what is the best product(s) to use to extend the life of this failing clear as long as possible? Is spending the money on a true ceramic coating a good idea or just a waste of money since the clear is already failing? I feel like I'm better off with something I can maintain instead, more like a ceramic sealant like HCAD recommended. That way I can keep re-applying as needed.

[The Guz]

Re: Early clear coat failure or wrong products used?

So the answer I need then is what is the best product(s) to use to extend the life of this failing clear as long as possible? Is spending the money on a true ceramic coating a good idea or just a waste of money since the clear is already failing? I feel like I'm better off with something I can maintain instead, more like a ceramic sealant like HCAD recommended. That way I can keep re-applying as needed.

A ceramic coating is not going to do anything for you at this point. The only true fix is a repaint. Any form of protection you put on it is not going to last that long.

Edit: There is one other product that may work. It is tricky to use and takes a little practice to get right. Now it won't repair clear coat failure or slow it down. I hope Nick is ok if I mention the name. Optimum Clear Coat Restorer. Again research it. I have used it and it is going to take some practice.

[Nick Winn]

Re: Early clear coat failure or wrong products used?

Let me check with a couple colleagues again & really see & double check what is going to be your best bet moving forward.

[crickets]

Re: Early clear coat failure or wrong products used?

Just to follow up on this, I think the problem was the glaze and yellow wax just has no durability. Perhaps it is fine for a show only car that doesn't see the elements for very long, but not a daily driver. I ended up going with NXT wax followed by hybrid ceramic liquid wax on this car after this post. To this day the car still looks fantastic! It was not the clear failing after all, but just poor durability and protection from the yellow wax. I'm quite happy with the outcome. I will say I loved how easy the NXT wax is to use, but the ceramic is a huge pain to get buffed to a haze free finish! I think I may switch from the yellow wax to the NXT on my show cars as well.