Suggestions on Avoiding Dealer Installed Swirls

[BJClarke001]

To make a long story short:

1) I have a new Ford Explorer (Color is like a very dark grey Clear Coat)
2) It was involved in a accident 5 days ago where a drunk driver crashed thru a privacy fence (missed the car ) but debris from the fence landed on my hood with scratches and dents
3) I had the damage estimated by the dealer where I bought it for repair and it is around $1300

So; Here is the questions.

Q1) The dealer really only needs to repair the hood and repaint. They said though that the fenders needed painting to Blend the new paint color on the hood (to avoid future fading issues). This is a brand new vehicle built in May of this year. Should I let them do this???

Q2) The painter at the dealer said that when they "Blend" the paint, they do not rub/polish at all. Is this possible?

Q3) To avoid any damage (like Dealer Installed Swirls) of anykind. Are there any kinds of instructions I should give the painter to insure the best quality job.

I know this site is more about the use of products and stuff. But I relate this topic somewhat to preventing scratches from simply washing your vehicle. And of course if they mess it up, I will use NOTHING BUT Meguiar's products to bring it back to the state it was.

Any help would be appreciated. It goes in Monday (tomorrow) and I won't sleep for 3-5 days wondering what the heck they are doing to my finish.

[Ranger72]

Why do you want to have the dealer paint it? Why not bring it to a specialist? You could have the hood painted first to see how well the color matches. The only way that swirls won't be instilled in the paint is if the man behind the rotary buffer knows proper techniques.

[BJClarke001]

Well, that does raise another question on "Why" am I using the dealer. Here is my rational to that:

The dealer daily has cars shipped to them with minor damage from transport. The guys in the shop know how to restore these (I hope) to a level of looking new.

I figured whom would know the vehicle better then the dealer themselves. Besides, this dealer has an excellent reputation in both sales and service. This is no small dealership this is going to. Besides, cost to repair was not my issue since the drivers insurance company is paying the full shot with a rental too. So price was not my issue but quality does. So I just hope my assumption pans out.

[Superior Shine]

Your vehicle has a two stage paint finish. That means color is sprayed on with a clear coat sprayed on top of that.

Sounds like the hood with be repaired then completly sprayed with color. The new paint will be blended into the fenders as well. Then the hood and fenders will be clear coated.

With the equipment now days allot of refinishing jobs get sent out the door with out buffing. But a finish has to be debris free and the texture /orange peel has to be pretty close to the factory finish.

[Accumulator]

Re: Suggestions on Avoiding Dealer Installed Swirls

I've had this done far more times than I'd like to think about...long-winded reply follows:

Originally posted by BJClarke001
[B]

Q1) The dealer really only needs to repair the hood and repaint. They said though that the fenders needed painting to Blend the new paint color on the hood (to avoid future fading issues). This is a brand new vehicle built in May of this year. Should I let them do this???

Generally the repair will be less obvious if they blend it this way. If the shop is good it'll be the way to go; not blending can make the separate panels look noticeably different. With your color it should work out fine.

Q2) The painter at the dealer said that when they "Blend" the paint, they do not rub/polish at all. Is this possible?

As mentioned, they will have to clean the areas in question and they might mar them if they don't do it right. I'd take it to them as clean as you can but with no LSP on the panels to be blended. I strip the wax off these panels and put a "paintable" product on them. Then tell the shop so they don't do something regrettable anyhow, thinking that they have to.

They will probably do some buffing on these areas after painting and about all you can do is hope for the best.

Q3) To avoid any damage (like Dealer Installed Swirls) of anykind. Are there any kinds of instructions I should give the painter to insure the best quality job.

Tell them how particular you are right up front. IMO this is the most important thing.

Tell them to *not* put any glaze or filler/oil-rich product on the areas in question until at least after you've inspected it (I'd say to leave it off entirely, then wash/protect it yourself). Inspect it under various light sources (*NOT* just fluorescent!!) and from different viewing angles.

You want to spot any problems before you accept the vehicle and leave the shop. Note that this can be a toughie, between your natural inclination to want the vehicle back (can lead to subconsciously thinking "it's OK") and the hustle/bustle of a shop. Plan so you can spend time inspecting, take a flashlight in case their light is bad, and don't go on an overcast/rainy day.

It's a narrow window of opportunity where the responsibility is entirely on *them* and you hold the cards (heh heh, the credit card), so do everything you can to spot problems before the window closes. Once you leave the shop all bets are off. A *good* shop will stand behind their work, but it's always best to spot the problems before you sign off on the work.

I like to protect the fresh paint with Meguiar's #5 New Car Glaze while it's curing. *VERY* user-friendly product, and not abrasive. Apply after every wash until the paint has cured (I always wait 90 days, even when the paint is "baked").

[Buellwinkle]

Personally, I would only have them do the hood. Body shop paint will never be as good in terms of chip proof as the factory paint. I had them do the hood before and it came out fine without doing the fenders. It's there job to color match and if it's fairly new, the factory color code is all they'll need. I once had them paint panels that they didn't have to and after 3 times of having them redo it, not because they painted the damaged problem wrong, but because they blended it wrong on the other panels and it was very obvious. Finally took it to another body shop and had them redo it on the insurance company's dime.

As another example, I have a pewter silver MB, the rear bumper was scratched and took it to a place that only painted the center band of the bumper and it came out great, still looks great a year later.

[BJClarke001]

All,

You have given me some good ideas to think about here before going into the shop this morning. (Couldn't sleep and washed the SUV in my garage because the neighbors were all still sleeping at 4:30 this AM).

One more thing; I thought Clear Coats fading rate is very minimal (Stage 1 Color of 2 stages). Especially when you maintain it with wax (Ultaviolet Protection). Is that true? So, you would think that blending a 2 stage paint scheme (clear coat) would be not required, opposed to a single stage paint. What da ya think?

[Mike Phillips]

Re: Suggestions on Avoiding Dealer Installed Swirls

Originally posted by BJClarke001
Q1) The dealer really only needs to repair the hood and repaint. They said though that the fenders needed painting to Blend the new paint color on the hood (to avoid future fading issues). This is a brand new vehicle built in May of this year. Should I let them do this???

If the paint on the fenders is still factory new and undamaged, I don't understand why they would want to paint them? Maybe a painter on our forum could explain this?

To me it sounds like they want to paint the fenders so it will color-match the paint they spray on the hood? Of course one thing leads to another, if they are worried about matching the paint they spray on the hood to match the factory paint on the fenders, then it would only seem natural to be worried about the paint they spray on the fenders matching the factory paint on the doors?

Off the cuff... it doesn't make sense. If the paint is perfectly fine on the fenders and only the hood is damaged and needs repaired and painted, then I would only let them work on the hood.

Q2) The painter at the dealer said that when they "Blend" the paint, they do not rub/polish at all. Is this possible?

If they have their paint system dialed-in, that includes, painter, booth, spray equipment. Laying down a nice finish shouldn't be a mystery every Monday morning as they start their work week. If the finish comes out smooth or at least matches the factory orange peel, and there is no DIP, (Dirt in Paint), then there shouldn't be any reason to sand, compound, or polish the paint.

Q3) To avoid any damage (like Dealer Installed Swirls) of any kind. Are there any kinds of instructions I should give the painter to insure the best quality job.

You might want to let him know you hang out on Meguiar's Online, even printing this thread out to show him you're wise to buffer swirl and it gets into paint. You could also print out the below picture to take with you and let them know these kind of results are not acceptable.



(To find more pictures like the above go to the search function in the gallery and type in Gross Swirls)

[BJClarke001]

Thanks Mike. You caught me here just before leaving and I will print this out right after I post here as you suggested. I do respect others opinions on here and as you indicate, we are to make our own best judgement calls. I too am in the same boat as you to limiting the work to the hood. I wonder if the dealer/s (or paint shops for that matter) create more work then what is really required to do the job right on Insurance jobs. I would hate to think this is true but can not be sure.

[rusty bumper]

Mike makes a lot of sense here.

I had the hood on our car painted last year, and it matched out pretty good with the rest of the paint, without the need to blend in anything.

If you do let them blend in the paint (base coat) on the fenders, just make sure they don't blend in the clear coat.

That's really asking for trouble!

[BJClarke001]

Rusty,

Your saying that color (Stage 1) is to be blended and clear coat (Stage 2) is to be the complete surface of the part (Fender)? I can see your point if that is what you are refering to.

[rusty bumper]

Originally posted by BJClarke001
Rusty,

Your saying that color (Stage 1) is to be blended and clear coat (Stage 2) is to be the complete surface of the part (Fender)? I can see your point if that is what you are refering to.

Yes, or at least (clear coat) down to a pin stripe or some other break in the fender.

It's less noticeable this way.

But it won't hurt to clear coat the whole fender if they want to.

[BJClarke001]

Well, the SUV is in the shop now . They (Dealer) still "Fully" recommend the blending method for the best matching finish. I talked to the supervisor and told him that I am a fanatic about my finish and that I am even a member on this MOL (That should have impressed him ). I asked him again about not using the buffers. He said "Only if they have to". I told him that I would not except it with swirls and that he should be using his best painter for this job. The clear coat will be used on the whole panel where the blending takes place. I will keep you informed and thanks to all for walking me thru the process, I know it helped me.

[Mike Phillips]

I will be very interested to see the results. Did he give you the impression he was web-savvy at all?

Problems with the quality of work being done at dealerships and body shops have come up on this forum from time to time. I know if it were my shop, I certainly wouldn't want negative publicity on a forum like this over the quality workmanship, (or lack thereof), of the work being performed at my shop.

The ridiculous thing about all of the horror stories of swirls, overspray, botched buff jobs etc., is that for the most part, all these things could be prevented by following the basics,

Evaluate the surface
Choose the right product
Use good technique


Keep us posted... and cross your fingers for good luck...

[Superior Shine]

If the paint on the fenders is still factory new and undamaged, I don't understand why they would want to paint them? Maybe a painter on our forum could explain this?

Mike,

It is very difficult to match paint exactly. If you were to paint only the hood there is a good chance that you will see that the hood and fender don't match.

So the trick is to paint the hood and tops of the fenders and gradually fog - "blend" - the paint into the rest of the fender. The blend should be completed way before you reach the area where the fender and the door meet.

In other words if you had the new paint on the hood put right next to the orig. paint on the fender you may see a difference in the color but if you blend the color on the fender the difference will be almost impossible to detect.