Wow, Guess I am out of the loop!

[Ranger72]

OK, this is weird! I have used my DA for quite some time! But I dont know what happend today! As of lately I have found myself using my rotary with #82 with and a W-9000 as my last step polish before waxing. Now I know most of you guys use the DA for the final polish but I have found that 82 and the W9000 leaves the finsih wonderfull with 0 bufer trails. (The 82 just looks better in my eyes). I realized that I use 82 quite often and enver really gave 80 a fair go. So today, I decided to give 80 its fair try and used the DA at speed 4.5ish with a W-8006 on my own vehicle, Everything was great I had a couple of panels done, when I saw something were the sun was hitting the finish, It was hard to see what was going on so I grabbed a hand held light and examine where I had buffed. There was marring, well DA buffer swirls so to speak. You know what I am trying to say, at the right angle, right light, ...etc..etc... I could see fine DA inflicted swirls. Now the 80 was new the pad was new/ clean, I used about 15 lbs of preasure and and thin beaded "X" of material on the pad. I worked one area at time going horizontal, vertical, and kiddy corner. So to rectify the problem I tried 82 with the DA, same results!!! To fix everything I used a W-9000 with 82 on my makita at about 1000 RPMs and the finish of my truck is perfect as usual. I guess that since I haven't used my DA for polishing/ cleaning (just lsp's) in such a long time that I have done something incorrect. What are your opinions? I thought that 82 and 80 were so light that it was almost impossible to do this, but I guess not lol. Sorry for the long post, I just am really confused as to to what I have done wrong. I am thinking that I may have used to large a workspace, or maybe too much product. well a "x" of product. HMMM I am stumped! lol

[RamAirV1]

Re: Wow, Guess I am out of the loop!

Originally posted by Ranger72
OK, this is weird! I have used my DA for quite some time! But I dont know what happend today! As of lately I have found myself using my rotary with #82 with and a W-9000 as my last step polish before waxing. Now I know most of you guys use the DA for the final polish but I have found that 82 and the W9000 leaves the finsih wonderfull with 0 bufer trails. (The 82 just looks better in my eyes). I realized that I use 82 quite often and enver really gave 80 a fair go. So today, I decided to give 80 its fair try and used the DA at speed 4.5ish with a W-8006 on my own vehicle, Everything was great I had a couple of panels done, when I saw something were the sun was hitting the finish, It was hard to see what was going on so I grabbed a hand held light and examine where I had buffed. There was marring, well DA buffer swirls so to speak. You know what I am trying to say, at the right angle, right light, ...etc..etc... I could see fine DA inflicted swirls. Now the 80 was new the pad was new/ clean, I used about 15 lbs of preasure and and thin beaded "X" of material on the pad. I worked one area at time going horizontal, vertical, and kiddy corner. So to rectify the problem I tried 82 with the DA, same results!!! To fix everything I used a W-9000 with 82 on my makita at about 1000 RPMs and the finish of my truck is perfect as usual. I guess that since I haven't used my DA for polishing/ cleaning (just lsp's) in such a long time that I have done something incorrect. What are your opinions? I thought that 82 and 80 were so light that it was almost impossible to do this, but I guess not lol. Sorry for the long post, I just am really confused as to to what I have done wrong. I am thinking that I may have used to large a workspace, or maybe too much product. well a "x" of product. HMMM I am stumped! lol

Fifteen pounds of pressure on the DA is probably too much. I don't know if that would cause micro-marring though.

RamAirV1

[Tim Lingor]

Hey,


With the DA compared to the rotary, one must work the product a lot longer. If you do not work it long enough, you may get micro-marring as the diminishing abrasives have not fully broken down. With the rotary, this happens quite quickly in comparison.

Last year, I remember being asked how long it took for #83 DACP to break down properly with the PC at speed 5. I use the rotary probably 90% of the time, especially with DACP. So I went outside, and buffed out a panel with the DA and the #83. After ~3-5 minutes of buffing, the #83 was ready to be removed! With the rotary, it is fraction of that! So if one is going to use the DA, you have to adjust your buffing time accordingly.

Give that a try!

Tim

[SkeeterJD]

Wow! 3-5 Minutes! I was just doing the vertical/horizontal/kiddy corner and then wiping off the #83. I was using a pretty slow arm speed, but it sure was not 3-5 minutes.

I just got my DA last week and am using it for the first time this weekend. It took my quite awhile just to do the hood, canopy, and deck lid of my Corvette. I did get some pretty good results, but if I can get better by working the product more, I'll give it a try. I just didnt want to go to a dry buff and possibley do some damage. #83 might be safe enough not to do any damage, but I didnt know seeing as it is pretty aggressive.

If the #83 is hard to get off, would that be an effect of not working the product long enough?

[RamAirV1]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Hey,


With the DA compared to the rotary, one must work the product a lot longer. If you do not work it long enough, you may get micro-marring as the diminishing abrasives have not fully broken down. With the rotary, this happens quite quickly in comparison.

Last year, I remember being asked how long it took for #83 DACP to break down properly with the PC at speed 5. I use the rotary probably 90% of the time, especially with DACP. So I went outside, and buffed out a panel with the DA and the #83. After ~3-5 minutes of buffing, the #83 was ready to be removed! With the rotary, it is fraction of that! So if one is going to use the DA, you have to adjust your buffing time accordingly.

Give that a try!

Tim

But the diminishing abrasives in #80 would break down more quickly than the ones in #83, wouldn't they? #83 is more time consuming to use with the DA, that's for sure.

RamAirV1

[Mike Phillips]

Micro-marring with a dual action polisher will depend upon technique and paint hardness, I've seen micro-marring with products before, in fact I posted recently about this to a thread started by SuperiorShine.

Also nothing beats the clarity and gloss produced by a rotary buffer but the problem with the rotary buffer is it tends to leave swirls or holograms in the finish that must be removed with the dual action polisher.

What color of paint we're you working on as your Avatar shows a white truck?

[Tim Lingor]

Originally posted by SkeeterJD
Wow! 3-5 Minutes! I was just doing the vertical/horizontal/kiddy corner and then wiping off the #83. I was using a pretty slow arm speed, but it sure was not 3-5 minutes.

I just got my DA last week and am using it for the first time this weekend. It took my quite awhile just to do the hood, canopy, and deck lid of my Corvette. I did get some pretty good results, but if I can get better by working the product more, I'll give it a try. I just didnt want to go to a dry buff and possibley do some damage. #83 might be safe enough not to do any damage, but I didnt know seeing as it is pretty aggressive.

If the #83 is hard to get off, would that be an effect of not working the product long enough?

Hey,

Please let me clarify. The time estimates are just that, estimates. It does depend on many factors including arm speed and pressure being applied to the PC. If one moves the PC slowly, with moderate pressure, the #83 may break down more quickly. Essentially, you want to work the product until it is only a light residue, but NOT DRY. Never dry buff as it will install marring. The key is to buff it long enough but not to the point that it is dry. If so, the #83 comes off rather easy!

Other things to keep in mind. I usually use 2 clean W-8006 pads for just the DACP step alone. A saturated pad may cause the product to gum up etc...

Cheers!

Tim

[Tim Lingor]

Originally posted by RamAirV1
But the diminishing abrasives in #80 would break down more quickly than the ones in #83, wouldn't they? #83 is more time consuming to use with the DA, that's for sure.

RamAirV1

Actually, Meg's #80 is a very "wet" product in that it provides a longer buff time with the rotary. Hence the reason why #80 is a great product for someone learning the rotary to start practicing with. But with the DA, it does break down faster than #83. I know that seems contradictory, but that is what I have found. Each Meg's product uses a special diminishing abrasive for that particular product. I have no idea how Meg's Chemists did what they did with #80, but I am glad they did!

Tim

[RamAirV1]

Originally posted by 2hotford
Actually, Meg's #80 is a very "wet" product in that it provides a longer buff time with the rotary. Hence the reason why #80 is a great product for someone learning the rotary to start practicing with. But with the DA, it does break down faster than #83. I know that seems contradictory, but that is what I have found. Each Meg's product uses a special diminishing abrasive for that particular product. I have no idea how Meg's Chemists did what they did with #80, but I am glad they did!

Tim

That does make sense. I save the #83 for the more severe swirls and use #80 most of the time.

Mosca has a good tutorial with pictures (I don't know where the thread is) where he shows how to use #83 with the DA. It goes along with what you are saying about letting the #83 break down, but not dry.



RamAirV1

[zey]

Yesterday I managed to see a few gurus working on a soft solid black paintwork using rotary with #83 and W-8006. For a 1.5' X 1.5' area with temperature of around 32 degree Celcius, the buffing time for #83 is within 10 seconds. Upon inspection, no swirls were found even with #83. The finish is very clear and we've got maximum reflection. After that, we tried using a DA with #80 and W-9006, and inspected the result again. Yes, we do get very mild micro-marring, but it's only noticeable when one is viewing very close to the surface. Hence, to have even clearer finish with DA, #82 is the way to go. I'm going to grab a bottle of #82 next week. I will still use #80 often to clean and polish up the surface (either with rotary or DA), and follow up with #82 before slapping on LSP.

[explore_02xlt]

all i have to say is if your new to M83 be careful it can be a pain in the neck. thank God mike helped me with my troubles with it. and if you do mess up, (i couldn't remove the product from my door) just wet your wash mit up and rewash the panel. or you can use a paint cleaner to remove it. it's water based

[Ranger72]

Yeah Mike, its was my white truck. I know it has scratch sensistive paint, maybe soft as well.

[Ranger72]

Originally posted by explore_02xlt
all i have to say is if your new to M83 be careful it can be a pain in the neck. thank God mike helped me with my troubles with it. and if you do mess up, (i couldn't remove the product from my door) just wet your wash mit up and rewash the panel. or you can use a paint cleaner to remove it. it's water based

No, I am very familiar with the 80's series line, just use my rotary too much I guess. LOL I think I was so used to the rotary that when using the G100 I was trying to work to big an area, and maybe using too much product. I will check this out today/ tomorrow so that I don't end up soley using 82 or 80 with a finishing pad on my makita as my final polishing step. I just love the way the 82 applied this way looks! lol