Expert help what happened to the paint

[Jarlhov]

Hi!
As a retailer of meguiars products in Sweden i visited a new customer yesterday. Foe the demostration he had a red ford with re-painted hood and fensders, non-clearcoated. There where a little oxidation on the hood so i started to show him the #85 with the w7006 pad to remove the oxides. Followed up with th #80 and the w8006/w9006 to give the perfect gloss. But no matter how much i uesed this combo i couldn't get a good finnish on the re-painted areas. reminding me that i've came across the same problem earlyer this year. The only thing that got the paint really nice and glossy was the #85 and the w4000 wool-pad and there where no swirls left in the paint. Wich there would usually be.I tried the w9006 with teh #80 after the wool-pad to se if i could get a perfect result. But as soon as i touched the paint with any foam pad it got blurry again. I also got a good result with the #80 and the w4000 pad.

I just want some answers so that i can understand the problem. Why does the paint go blury and dull with the foam pads but not with the wool pad. It should be vice versa. I used an roatay machine but also tryed with an orbital machine.

Mihael

[Mike Phillips]

Without being there I can't say for sure as I have never come across this. My guess is the paint is either very hard or very soft, if it's single stage and it oxidizes easily/quickly I'll guess it's very soft. If it's really soft, it might not be reacting very well to the full contact of the foam with the paint whereas typically with wool pads on your on an edge.

These are just guesses...

I'll forward the link to this thread to Jason Rose and Mike Pennington and see if they've ever seen this before...


From your experience, can you tell if this paint is soft or hard?

[Jarlhov]

It was defily very soft. almost as soft as the paint is when it's still warm after a re-paint.

[Shiny Lil Detlr]

Is it possible that jumping from 85 all the way down to 80 caused the problem? If 85 left a haze behind, and needed to be removed, maybe 80 wasn't agressive enough to take the haze out. Could it be that you needed an intermediate step with 82 or 83?

That's my only thought, as I haven't dealt with "agressive" cleaning/polishing on single stage paint... just a "light cleaning."

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Jarlhov
It was defily very soft. almost as soft as the paint is when it's still warm after a re-paint.

Really soft paints tend to not lend themselfs to polishing easily. I'm not sure if I can use my keyboard to explain why. There is a range between too soft and too hard where paint can be abraded and polished; outside this range on either side of the spectrum you run into difficulties.


Question: Are you using the 8" foam pads when buffing with foam, or the smaller 6" foam pads?

[Jarlhov]

I used the smaler 6.5" pads. i think i wrote w7006/w9006

[Mike Phillips]

I spoke with Bob Bergman, one of our Field Reps that works with manufactures on OEM assembly lines and paint manufactures and he suggests you try using some products from our traditional Mirror Glaze line, for example,

M01 Medium Cut Cleaner - Wool Pad
M03 Machine Glaze - Foam pads

For foam pads, Bob suggests using our W-1000 or W-5500 foam pads as the foam formula for these foam pads is very different from our other foam pads and was specifically formulated to work with the M01 and the M03.

Here's what Bob sent me, after I sent him the link to this thread...

Hey Mike,

Sounds like single stage paint. I've experienced this more than once. Uncured urethane can work the same way. It's like going back to the good old days of lacquer and enamel. The items that will most likely work the best are M1 and M3. M1 with a wool pad like the W-4000 followed by M3 with a finishing wool or for the flawless shine a W-1000.

The Wooless Wonder strikes again.

There's a significant difference in the foam from the W1000 to the W7000, 8000, 9000 series.

Hope this helps you,

Bob

[Jarlhov]

Unfotunatly we don't have any of the traditional pruduct availible here in Sweden. But i'm satisfied with the answer.

[papi_Jay]

I don't know about foam , but I used knitted wool ( the finest wool pad there is ) on 2 day old fresh paint on a fender and that pad alone at about 1200-1500 rpm with fine cut rubbing compound left the fender pretty much perfect after a wetsanding with 2000 grit .
I saw no swirls whatsoever , but skipped the machine glaze step since more painting of the front would be done , I figured I would do stages 2 and 3 all at once .
I hope I dont experience the same issues when I get to the foam pad stages .

[Pete-FWA]

Mike,

When Bob Bergman talks about "There's a significant difference in the foam from the W1000 to the W7000, 8000, 9000 series.", I wonder if I'm reading too deeply into this.

I still have some W-1000 yellow pads, 8", with the glued-on backing plate that screws onto my rotary. Is he saying the foam itself in this pad is somehow different than the W8000 with the quick change Velcro system? I see they are listed as different part numbers and descriptions on the Meguiar's Online Store.

When I was in business, I bought some things in large quantity, so I am still working with the last of those pads I'd purchased in 2000. This has left me without the need to buy a pad in over 5 years.

Did I miss a technology change? My understanding is that Meguiar's has three foams for their various sizes and types of backing and they are colored: burgundy for heaviest "cutting", yellow for middle and some final "polishing", and beige/white for the finest of "finishing".

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Pete-FWA
Mike,

When Bob Bergman talks about "There's a significant difference in the foam from the W1000 to the W7000, 8000, 9000 series.", I wonder if I'm reading too deeply into this.

I still have some W-1000 yellow pads, 8", with the glued-on backing plate that screws onto my rotary. Is he saying the foam itself in this pad is somehow different than the W8000 with the quick change Velcro system?

Yes. The foam formula used for the W-1000 and the W-5500 are distinctly different from the foam used for the W-8000 and the W-8006.

The foam used for the W-1000 and the W-5500 pads was chosen to work with the traditional Mirror Glaze paint cleaners and polishes, on both paint and plastics. The M01, M03, W-1000 and W-5500 were/are the products used for our plastic polishing system.

I've used this system a lot to remove swirls, oxidation and scratches out of Plexiglas boat windshields, the rear windows in the older Corvette Convertible tops back windows, watch faces, instrument panel lenses, tail light lenses, helicopter windows, sky lights on houses etc. It has always worked exceptionally well.

[Pete-FWA]

Mike, thank you so much for the information update.

Part of the attraction of this site for me is "catching up" with the changes I've missed in the last 5 years and applying them to what I still do in my spare time today. This, undoubtedly, will help me enhance some of my results. (My hope is that it also explains some of my difficulties in certain uses of the W1000 )

When my supplier opens this morning, I'm going to see if the have or even know of the difference in the pads.

Again, thank you for proving why Meguiar's Online is one of the best forums on the net for REAL technical knowledge to back up the full line of products.

[Mike Phillips]

Originally posted by Pete-FWA
Mike, thank you so much for the information update.

Part of the attraction of this site for me is "catching up" with the changes I've missed in the last 5 years and applying them to what I still do in my spare time today.

Again, thank you for proving why Meguiar's Online is one of the best forums on the net for REAL technical knowledge to back up the full line of products.

Thank you for the kind words. It's a lot of fun working for Meguiar's and I can assure you everyone I work with is just as passionate about the role they play as part of the team.

[Pete-FWA]

Just as an update, earlier this week I experimented with the W1000 vs. W8000 pads, both using M83 at identical speeds on the same paint finish. The W8000 pad felt more forgiving and left me with much finer results on the base/clear finish I was working.

I had this very article in mind when I did my comparison. Nobody locally stocked the W8000 pad from Meguiar's and the owners and experienced managers, not rookies, told me the only difference was the W1000 permanent mounted backing plate. I had to order my new W8000s from the MOL store.

Though I took pride in learning the various products and uses from several companies, I often relied on the businesses who sold me supplies for updated information. I'm surprised that knowledge on the W8000 is STILL new to these places more than 5 years after I left the profession. Next time I pay visits to my main ones, I'll mention the differences and encourage them to stock W8000. It would certainly help people trying to use Meguiar's products.