To bead or not to bead?

[gtomike7635]

There seems to be some differing opinions as to whether water should bead up on a polished/waxed surface. Can someone clarify this for me?

[Michael Stoops]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

The general public has been trained to equate "beading' with "protection", so when they see millions of nice little beads they believe their vehicle is fully protected. Beading is really just a function of surface tension and is not necessarily a guarantee of protection. You can polish a vehicle with a product that claims to offer zero protection and water will bead on the surface. But the product flat out states it offers no protection, so how does the water bead? Surface tension.

There is an argument that beading can actually be harmful to some degree since it concentrates deposits in the water and magnifies the effects of the sun. The think is this just increases the possibility of etching from acid rain, etc. People who take this side of the discussion tend to be in the minority though, with the majority still clinging to the "beading is a sure sign of protection" school of thought. Truth is you can create a product that will protect very well without beading. Good luck trying to sell it though!

I think Meguiar's is really on to something with the hydrophobic technology used introduced in Ultimate Quik Detailer and now used in NXT 2.0 and M21 2.0. Yes, it may bead water like crazy, but ultimately it will drive the water right off the surface. Treat a car with a these products and then drive it in the rain - there is a noticeable effect of the water simply blowing off the surface. You final rinse when washing is easier too, and drying is a snap.

Just a little side note: I've been in the commercial print business in one form or another for 20 years or so and with the advent of water based printing inks many years ago there were issues when trying to print on non-porous substrates, like plastic bags, when moving from solvent based inks to water based inks. The solution was to run the plastic sheeting through something called a corona discharge treatment (essentially an electric charge) that would alter the surface tension of the plastic film. Without this treatment the water based ink would bead up on the film and the print would smear and be unreadable. The corona discharge treatment altered the surface tension in such a way that the ink would now "wet" the surface ("wetting" being the exact opposite of "beading") and everything was fine. Surface tension - science at work!!

[yalerd]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

The general public has been trained to equate "beading' with "protection", so when they see millions of nice little beads they believe their vehicle is fully protected. Beading is really just a function of surface tension and is not necessarily a guarantee of protection. You can polish a vehicle with a product that claims to offer zero protection and water will bead on the surface. But the product flat out states it offers no protection, so how does the water bead? Surface tension.

There is an argument that beading can actually be harmful to some degree since it concentrates deposits in the water and magnifies the effects of the sun. The think is this just increases the possibility of etching from acid rain, etc. People who take this side of the discussion tend to be in the minority though, with the majority still clinging to the "beading is a sure sign of protection" school of thought. Truth is you can create a product that will protect very well without beading. Good luck trying to sell it though!

I think Meguiar's is really on to something with the hydrophobic technology used introduced in Ultimate Quik Detailer and now used in NXT 2.0 and M21 2.0. Yes, it may bead water like crazy, but ultimately it will drive the water right off the surface. Treat a car with a these products and then drive it in the rain - there is a noticeable effect of the water simply blowing off the surface. You final rinse when washing is easier too, and drying is a snap.

Just a little side note: I've been in the commercial print business in one form or another for 20 years or so and with the advent of water based printing inks many years ago there were issues when trying to print on non-porous substrates, like plastic bags, when moving from solvent based inks to water based inks. The solution was to run the plastic sheeting through something called a corona discharge treatment (essentially an electric charge) that would alter the surface tension of the plastic film. Without this treatment the water based ink would bead up on the film and the print would smear and be unreadable. The corona discharge treatment altered the surface tension in such a way that the ink would now "wet" the surface ("wetting" being the exact opposite of "beading") and everything was fine. Surface tension - science at work!!

WOW Mike!
Very nice explanation, I don't know if it could be said any better

[J. A. Michaels]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

Very well said, Mike. I agree with you.

[davey g-force]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

Ah, the old conundrum - to bead or not to bead!

I love the beading effect and the way water just blows off a freshly waxed / UQD'd surface. Unfortunately, beading can also be a PITA when it comes to water spots. A slightly dusty car that has sat in a light shower ends up looking WORSE than an unwaxed, non-beading car when those dusty water spots dry.

Oh well, at least washing the car is easier with a good coat of wax on it! :

[RogueGypsy]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

I prefer a finish that will sheet water off rather than bead. There is just too much stuff floating around in the air looking for something to stick too.

[Murr1525]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

The thing is, even a wax that supposedly sheets will bead in light rain ( or take UQD for instance), and a wax that beads will sheet if you are driving.... so really it ends up being a draw.

[Mike Phillips]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

I prefer a finish that will sheet water off rather than bead.

Consensus, both in the real world and in the cyber world would place you in the minority. Meguiar's has tried for decades to educate people about the benefits of a wax that will sheet water versus force it to bead up and try as hard as we could, people choose to buy waxes that makes water bead up because they like that way it looks, plus they use this water beading characteristic as a visual sign of present protection.

As the water beading starts to fall off, that is the beads become larger, flatter and more spread out, that's a sign the wax or paint sealant has worn off and it's time to re-apply a fresh application.

So we can talk about the benefits and features of a wax or paint sealant that sheets water all day long but at the end of the day, the majority of do-it-yourselfers/enthusiasts/detailers etc., choose to use a wax that will bead water.

The important thing is to remove any standing water from off the paint, (no matter which type of wax you're using), so the water won't leave either a Type I or Type II water spot.

[davey g-force]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

The important thing is to remove any standing water from off the paint, (no matter which type of wax you're using), so the water won't leave either a Type I or Type II water spot.

Mike can you explain or post a link to Type I / Type II water spots please? I'm not familiar with that terminology...

[Mike Phillips]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

How To Remove Water Spots off Automotive Paints

Swirls, scratches and water spots are the three most common paint defects car enthusiasts struggle with when it comes to removing them and preventing them from coming back. In this how-to article we'll take a look at water spots, where they come from, how to remove them and also how to prevent them.

There are two basic kinds of water spots or water marks found on automotive paints.

• Type I Water Spots - Above Surface Mineral Deposits
• Type II Water Spots - Below Surface Water Spot Etchings

Click the link to read the rest of the article...


How To Remove Water Spots off Automotive Paints

[davey g-force]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

There are two basic kinds of water spots or water marks found on automotive paints.

• Type I Water Spots - Above Surface Mineral Deposits
• Type II Water Spots - Below Surface Water Spot Etchings

That's all I wanted to know, thanks Mike!

[RogueGypsy]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

Consensus, both in the real world and in the cyber world would place you in the minority. Meguiar's has tried for decades to educate people about the benefits of a wax that will sheet water versus force it to bead up and try as hard as we could, people choose to buy waxes that makes water bead up because they like that way it looks, plus they use this water beading characteristic as a visual sign of present protection.

As the water beading starts to fall off, that is the beads become larger, flatter and more spread out, that's a sign the wax or paint sealant has worn off and it's time to re-apply a fresh application.

So we can talk about the benefits and features of a wax or paint sealant that sheets water all day long but at the end of the day, the majority of do-it-yourselfers/enthusiasts/detailers etc., choose to use a wax that will bead water.

The important thing is to remove any standing water from off the paint, (no matter which type of wax you're using), so the water won't leave either a Type I or Type II water spot.

Yeah, I get the whole 'eeeeeeeeeeewwwww, it beads' thing. But as you're aware, living in the Northwest, it would require a full time "drier" to keep the water off of a vehicle.
Another poster said something about waxed cars looking worse than unwaxed cars after a light rain and some dust blowing. I see this a lot. The condo manager where my parents live, loves to blow off the parking lot. It only takes a glance to identify who waxes and who doesn't. I guess it just goes back to "seeing is believing". If you can't see the beads, it must not be working.

[CarbonBlack]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

I especially liked the printing piece!
It reminds me of a show called "How It's Made" on discovery channel

thanks
-nick

[gtomike7635]

Re: To bead or not to bead?

Thanks for all the info. I too like to see the water bead. I just had my car detailed and the detailer uses Meguiar's. The car looks better than when it was new