General question about microabrasives

[agp423]

If products like SwirlX, UC, M105/205 makes the paint smooth by "sanding down" the clear coat, then will the clear coat eventually be all sanded down? If such happens, would the paint be damaged if those products are used again?

[Murr1525]

Re: General question about microabrasives

Yes, there is a limit to how many times you can do things.

But, if you work with proper techniques/products, you could detail safely every month for 15 years or more.... And generally most wont be using strong paint cleaners that often.

You should only need the strong products once, then mild from there on out if you do things properly.

[Markus Kleis]

Re: General question about microabrasives

Also, just to be clear (terrible pun), it is not just micro-abrasives that abrade away clear coat or color coat of single stage cars- all abrasive polishes and compounds do this (with diminishing abrasives too).

The amount of paint being removed, especially with milder products like SwirlX or M205 is quite small and should be perfectly safe to use them every few months to clean up the minor swirls.

[Mike Pennington]

Re: General question about microabrasives

When working by hand or D/A, you really don't need to worry about removing too much, even over time. You are removing such a microscopic amount, you'll be just fine.

However, when you jump to a rotary buffer and possibly sanding then you really need to think about how much material you are removing. This is one reason why we always recommend using the least aggressive method in particular when working with sandpaper or a rotary buffer.

Mike

[Michael Stoops]

Re: General question about microabrasives

As Mark points out, all products designed to remove below surface defects from the paint will to some degree remove some of the clear coat. That is the ONLY way to remove below surface defects like fine swirls, etchings, scratches, etc.

Obviously the real question is "how much clear coat is being removed?". The short is "it depends". It depends not only on what product you're using, but how you're applying it, how long you're working it, etc. We know that there isn't an awful lot of clear coat to work with on a factory paint job, just about 2 mils (2/1000 of an inch). But again "how much clear coat is being removed?" There's a thread here on MOL that goes back a few years, written by Superior Shine - How much paint are you removing where Joe takes some measurements before and after various steps of not only D/A polishing (with M83 at speed 6!!), but also wet sanding and rotary buffing with both a wool pad & M85 Diamond Cut Compound and a W7000 foam cutting pad/M85 Diamond Cut. You'll notice he started with a surface in pretty horrible condition so he had to remove a fair amount of paint to correct the defects. But even when running the D/A as hard as he did, he was not able to measure a change in thickness after doing so. It was only during wet sanding and very aggressive rotary buffing that he was able to show measurable amounts of clear being removed.

Meguiar's always teaches to use the least aggressive method to get the job done, and Joe's post shows why this is important. If you can get the job done with M205, why use M105? If you can get it done with M80, why use Ultimate Compound? And if M80 is NOT getting the job done, there are plenty of other choices before just jumping into M105!

But the key to preventing the unnecessary removal of clear coat is to not put the defects in the paint to begin with. Limit the defects and you limit the use of products that can potentially remove any clear. Use caution, common sense and best practices when washing and drying your vehicle and you'll be well ahead of the game. Then, when the time does come to bust out the G110, W8207 and M205 (or M80, SwirlX, etc) you'll know you're taking off such a small amount of clear that Joe can't even measure it, and you'll keep your vehicle looking great for years to come.

[Eddie6th]

Re: General question about microabrasives

This was all great reading! I went and read SS's write up.Good he took the time out to do all that.Although,as he said,lots of cars coats will vary,but it does give some kind of a guide to people who don't have meters at their disposal.

About these meters.I noticed it 's measured in inches for the states(possibly the UK aswell?),and is written as mils.I know over here we use m[metres.(S.I.)]. So here would be written for example: 2/1000's of mm,or 2um(microns) or 0.002mm. I take it they can flip between one or the other with the push of a button?

I'll need to watch out here when i'm reading threads,so as not to get mixed up between the two.